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1

Monday, April 25th 2016, 7:08am

Healers, Summys, wardens and their OP self-healing abilities.

Hello, I am sure we all have noticed this disballance in pvp, where even 1 of this healing character can make a lot of chaos. For example full-healing healer: tons of shields, plate armor, cc's and a lot of healing spells that he can use on himself. This makes him almost unkillable.
It's not a uncommon to see this healing characters completely owning another characters in pvp, that have even 10k more gs. We can often see testing their "unkillabness" in arenas. Not even anger is helping and now it's even more unfair since there are guild rubies that heals a stunned character, so you are not even able to kill them in combination with stuns.
This characters completely overshadow certain characters such as archers, bards and even a warriors in their own close-range fight.
I don't think that this is right. So thats why I've come up with this suggestion of only one self healing spell that is different for each character.

Healer: Spell that restores 75% health of maximum health. Cooldown 1 minute. It applys a negative buff on the character that stacks up 4 times, called Selfishness. Each stack of this negative buff decreases it's self-healing power by 25%.
So for example, it heals by 75%, 50%, 25% and 10% at 4th stack of this effect. This negative buff dissapears after 2 minutes or after leaving a combat. Wound don't have effect on this.

Summy: They are vampires and reanimators, so I suggest healing spell that heals over time for 1,2 and 4% of maximum health per second, depends on number of placed parasites on the enemy. Parasite spell has cd 10s. Regeneration is affected by wound, but there is always min. 1%/sec.

Warden: Healing potion that heals for 50% of maximum health. CD 5 sec, and time to cast 1.5 sec, so they need actually to stay still. It applys a negative buff on the character called Addiction for 1:30 minute, that stacks up 10 times, and resets back to 1:30min each time he use this healing pot. Each stack of this negative buff decreases it's healing power by 30%, 10% and 5%, so it goes 50, 20, 10, 5, 5, 5, 5.. up to 10 stack. If character drinks this healing pot again, it will hurt him for 10% of maximum health each time he drink. Wound affects it's healing power.

All of this characters can obtain their self-healing spells at 10 level at their trainers.
I think this will make PvP more fair. They still can be healed by another healing character so I don't see problem in this.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "RedCatCZ" (Apr 25th 2016, 8:39am)


2

Monday, April 25th 2016, 10:14am

Ghost

Trainee

Posts: 116

Location: California, USA

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Nah. Healers are completely fine. They are balanced.
Suppression builds and support wardens melt full healers.

Methinks you have a biased opinion gained through random battleground skirmishes and/or cash shop.

3

Monday, April 25th 2016, 10:38am

Quoted

Methinks you have a biased opinion gained through random battleground skirmishes and/or cash shop.

Well, isn't this the way on what we should base our opinions? Analising PvP in arenas and bg's, 1v1 fights. It's called practice. I often see healers owning characters that have same cash shop items and a lot higher gs. Can't simply dps them, neither cc them to death becouse they regenerate from guild rubies.
Healer vs Warden is not competent example. They are both healing characters. And we all know that wardens are good in this patch.

4

Monday, April 25th 2016, 11:46am

Quoted

Methinks you have a biased opinion gained through random battleground skirmishes and/or cash shop.

Well, isn't this the way on what we should base our opinions? Analising PvP in arenas and bg's, 1v1 fights. It's called practice. I often see healers owning characters that have same cash shop items and a lot higher gs. Can't simply dps them, neither cc them to death becouse they regenerate from guild rubies.
Healer vs Warden is not competent example. They are both healing characters. And we all know that wardens are good in this patch.


Ghost plays on P2P just like me, so I guess our experiences could be vastly different. That being said, I guess due to increased damage from boutique stuff on F2P if anything it should be easier to kill healers.

BGs and 1v1 fights are a terrible source of opinion. In BGs there's gear difference, basically no communication and focus whatsoever. In 1v1, I don't think you should be able to kill a healer - it should always be a focused team effort. If we CC and focus a healer, it goes down in a few seconds, if anyone could burst down a healer alone without much effort, then they'd be more of a liability than something which helps the team.

The only issue with healers are is that they basically removed half the resources required. So if you lack the focus to dispatch them, they can basically indefinitely heal. This is only really an issue in 3v3 though, I imagine.
Stargazer - P2P League
Hiren - P2P Empire

5

Monday, April 25th 2016, 12:42pm

Actually BG and 1v1 fights are the best source. If healer can kill you with 100% health at the end, then something is wrong. If healer with lower can tank 3 players, then something is wrong.
Healer is just... healer - team support, its not a Boss that you need focus with whole team. He should be killable 1v1. Everyone should be killable 1vs1. Healers supports team, team supports healer. Thats how it should be.. well if Healer is not focused on dps.
Thats why I suggest only 1 healing spell for these characters so they can't heal infinitely.

6

Monday, April 25th 2016, 12:52pm

Ghost

Trainee

Posts: 116

Location: California, USA

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Quoted

Methinks you have a biased opinion gained through random battleground skirmishes and/or cash shop.

Well, isn't this the way on what we should base our opinions? Analising PvP in arenas and bg's, 1v1 fights. It's called practice. I often see healers owning characters that have same cash shop items and a lot higher gs. Can't simply dps them, neither cc them to death becouse they regenerate from guild rubies.
Healer vs Warden is not competent example. They are both healing characters. And we all know that wardens are good in this patch.


Should base your balance thoughts off organized pvp imo. In random skirmishes you have bad builds, incorrect aspects for the situation, people randomly running around doing their own thing and messing about. Observe 3v3, 6v6, guild domi, where a full party or raid is prepared and queued together with all things proper.

You won't be able to 1v1 a healer. Don't expect to. On the flip side, a healer will never be able to kill someone 1v1 either. To me, that's balanced and in no need of tweaking. Inexperienced healers WILL die.

I mentioned support warden - not healer. Very different builds. Support warden applies a spammable 40% healing reduction aoe that can't be dispelled (melee, but still).

7

Monday, April 25th 2016, 1:34pm

Quoted

You won't be able to 1v1 a healer.

Thats what I wan't change. Healing characters are almost unbeatable. Healing aspect is fine for sacrifice of their dps, but they shouldnt be anything like bosses that whole your team has to focus on.
And I am also not talking only about full-healers. The problem is, that they can do nice dps, cc you, fill you with negative buffs and on top of all of this they are also healing! Result - healer wins with 100% heals.
You know, there is my example: I am a warrior 74k gs with flawless pvp build on defender aspect (yes i believe in this build that much), there is a melee healer 64k gs, similar runes and patronage. I can spam 40% heal reduction but almost with no effect, and deal nice damage. My problem is, that HEALER can kill me on my own playground and leave with 100% health while his health havent dropped under 50% for whole fight.
I am not fighting againt summys, healers and wardens anymore since they can dps me and constantly throw healing spell on themselves. There is no point.
As I am saing. Everybody should be beatable 1vs1. There shouldnt be any exceptions for these characters no matter what aspect they have.

8

Monday, April 25th 2016, 2:08pm

Aionwen

Intermediate

Posts: 487

Location: Berlin

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If healer can kill you with 100% health at the end, then something is wrong. If healer with lower can tank 3 players, then something is wrong.
Healer is just... healer - team support, its not a Boss that you need focus with whole team. He should be killable 1v1. Everyone should be killable 1vs1. Healers supports team, team supports healer

Everybody should be beatable 1vs1


go play hello kitty online and stop complaining about rpg aspect. this each-should-be-killable-nonsense is out of ur business little warrior.
sure healer goes out of fight with 100%HP, theres nothing wrong withit, hes a Healer!
sure healer should not be killable by 1, its necessary coz hes a Healer!
sure healer can tank 3 or more players, its nothing wrong withit, hes a Healer!

maybe u dont understand the profession of a Healer, he has to keep 5 morons alive jumping from voidzones into bossfrontaoe that are able to kill half party in a second. thats NO support, thats HEALING! and if kids could focus out a healer in bgs where would be the funfactor?

beat urself and make a better build if u dont wanna die against each little healer, have a nice day and learn to play!
PLS make Tekians playable race. fix shipcanons!

9

Monday, April 25th 2016, 2:22pm

I am a warrior 74k gs with flawless pvp build on defender aspect
Link the build so i can trashtalk it please.

10

Monday, April 25th 2016, 2:43pm

Quoted

Link the build so i can trashtalk it please.

http://www.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!1!113..3…vnslhe/RQLEUURZ

Go on, I am not worried. Also my stats are based on physical damage and critical damage.

@Aionwen: I do not accept your fallacy, so your reference about Hello Kitty is irrelevant.
Role of healers is keeping 5 morons alive, as you said. But the role of these 5 morons should be keeping healer alive. What you just wrote does not make any sence. You know this is fine. What is not fine is healers dps build that can overshadow non-healing characters and win with full health.
Healer has a lot of shields + plate armor + he would have 1 self-healing spell as I suggest, that is enought. And now he can almost fully heal with guild healing ruby while he is cc'ed!

11

Monday, April 25th 2016, 3:47pm

i see several problems with your suggestion

1. what about pve? there are pve activities where the tank gets around 2-3 million damage per secound ! how you wanna heal this with 1 healing spell with 1 min cd? :D
2. yes you should NOT be able to kill a healer 1 vs 1 but he cant kill you too^^ last patch he could easily be hybrid but thats not possible anymore cuz healer dmg SUCKS rrly hard this patch -.- take a bit of bloodlust and its an eternal fight -.-
3. most important your build is fail sry^^ defender aspect means you are a TANK you should not kill anything^^ your job is to get a beating ! thats what a tank is for he gets his face smacked in by all kinds of creatures^^ even tho have to admit warr tank is still to strong in pvp^^ against non healing classes its even unfair i mean why you should have + 120% life? unfair in my eyes^^

12

Monday, April 25th 2016, 3:49pm

make reincarnations for all classes
play to max level
play whatever class seems best to you
be happy :)
you can even cath up with gear if you want to go all out, is not hard to catch up this patch

(or get a coremorpher if you are not patient enough)

and yes, its a fact that a healer can still do some dps while healing which is enough to kill a class without selfheal over time
and its also true that the heal-under-cc-guildrubies are very powerful

but also its true that healers are still fine in total

regarding gamemechanics, warrior is "the best" class btw(as for now), so you should not complain :P

13

Monday, April 25th 2016, 3:54pm

Go on
Disobedient ruby is essential. 20% damage to blows blows because treacherous and lunge are 90% of your damage. Other than that it looks decent. Slaughter helps a lot with killing a healer, but it is useless if you want that hot 1v1 action. Personally I don't use antiheal. The bleed damage isn't worth wasting gcd on. I would rather use some stun or treache/lunge.

14

Monday, April 25th 2016, 4:43pm

@Bluescarlet:
1. Astral: s1 is possible to go all throught withour a single healer. In s2 you have 1 healer + 1 helping secondary healer anyway
Raids: 2 raids, there are defenitely more healers than 2 + some secondary healers.
2. Full-healer trully does not do much damage, but there are hybrids too! Melee healers rises and they can deal decent damage and got a lot of healing spells, stuns and shield.
3. I see you havent played warrior yet. Assault aspect is useless, unless you have 13 runes and 80k gs, or you are exping. Everything on warrior is based on defenders aspect.

@ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER:
Yeah I've been thinking about making palla with assault aspect and shield that are just ridiculously op in 7.0. I could do the same in 6.0, but I won't change the class just becouse I know that that one is better. I like my warrior :(

@Gibe: I will think about adding that ruby in my 2nd tank build.

Ok and what about if Healers could self heal with that 1 spell if they use any other aspect than healing aspect?
Btw why did we stuck on Healer only?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "RedCatCZ" (Apr 25th 2016, 4:49pm)


15

Monday, April 25th 2016, 5:33pm

astral s1 you are right 6 dps classes with a bit of bloodlust just rush there but well s1 is uelsess so whatever there^^
astral s2 without real heals? meh doubt it^^ at some bosses you need to heal several targets (lol yeah right what about aoeheal anyway?) so woth 1 skill you will fail^^ and in raids well warden can even soloheal new raid on hardmode :P but with your suggestion you would need like 10 heals to keep the tank alive ?! i just go after your example with the 1 healing spell here and the 4 boss in fractal hits you every 2 sek for about 3-5 mio damage which is about half of the tank hp^^ also dont forget if you take many healers who should dps? some bosses have a timer after which they simply kill you^^
and warr just useful as tank? LOL warr is one of the hardest hitting classes atm and i always laught if i see a tank warr in a bg^^ they are like mosquitos they nibble a bit at you but dont kill^^ but a assault war can hit for 3 mio +!! in a grp fight with buffs and no you dont even need 13 runes for this -.- even the war in my grp with lvl 8 runes hits up to 1,5 and this without any buffs at all

and why we talk about healers well cuz you startet this thread for em :P btw i dont seperate any classes here^^ a healer is a class who heals be it summy,cleric or warden

but in general from what i see your point in general is not the healing aspect right? cuz you often say melee healer IF thats the case just say a support shouldnt have this much selfheal and thats a whole diffrent matter which wouldnt break any pve content :P but then i have to say a bard and gunner have a shitload of selfheal too and if they take bloodlust and do aoe... well they heal up nearly as much as a bad heal then :D

16

Monday, April 25th 2016, 6:05pm

I don't understand your point about s2. It all would stay the same. Currently there is at least 1 full healer and 1 support heal in s2 parties. This wouldnt change. Raids wouldn't change too. It would stay the same. Healers would have 1 self healing spell and if its not enought, there is always 1 more healer in the raid and some characters with support heal spell.
PvE with this wouldnt be a problem at all.
Yeah I clearly can see you havent played warrior yet. Just for you-assault aspect on warrior is one big dissapoitment. You can dps too in defender aspect. Any warrior will confirm that. It's good for exping only. If some warrior jumped on you with this assault aspect, he probably had 79-80k gs becouse he can afford this.

Quoted

but in general from what i see your point in general is not the healing aspect right?

right. I have problem that healing characters wins a fights with 100% hp at the end, becouse of a lot of effective healing spells. They should be equal to any other character if they are not fully-heal with very low damage.

17

Monday, April 25th 2016, 6:12pm

I'm very convinced that assault warrior is crap in pvp. Assault can hit harder, but its about getting CA to use those skills. Defense aspect has 2 rubies with CA regen. As assault if you wanna get full CA to burst someone, you're probably dead before that.

To be on topic. Assault sure has higher chance of killing a healer, but overall its pretty crap.

18

Monday, April 25th 2016, 7:13pm

well s2 with 2 healers? lol no^^ its already super easy and even a matron can heal it so a solo heal can do it easy^^
and the part with raids is still not understandable ? boss hits for 5 mio bam tank down on 50% heal uses heal bum tank at 100% boss hits bam tank at 50% 2 heal uses heal tank at 100% bum boss hits bam tank at 50% and now both healers have cd? how should this work? dont forget for every heal you take you have 1 dps less (also supports with offheal wont do as much dmg as a assault specc dps so you lose dmg then too)

its true i didnt play warr this season yet but why every good warr uses assault in domi then? :D it is about KILLING stuff and thats hard as a tank^^ but a assault warr can one or two hit ppl... what use it is when you spin like a useless turtle half of the battleground?... the overall dmg you do then is nothing more than useless cuz the spin isnt even worth mentioning most of the time... bloodlust can easily heal against this^^

and i mean thats the whole point right? you complain you have problems killing stuff but you dont want to play the aspect which is MADE for killing? tank is MADE to be durable !! not to do dmg !!(btw most ppl see warr as super op this patch)

19

Monday, April 25th 2016, 7:41pm

Dude, you clearly have no idea what are you talking about, regarding to a warrior. It also looks like you are ignoring all what we are writing you about warrior. Again exclusively for you: ASSAULT ASPECT IS USELESS- you got it?? Thats all you have to know about warrior if you dont play it. End of story.
Also we already have made a progress and agree that healer with healing aspect could stay same so there would be no change in PvE. Different it would be for Healers that uses assault or support aspect, that are unfair compared to other non-healing characters.

I am not even expecting any change to be done about this becouse the problems with summys and healers was there for very long time and warden is problem too. I just want to make some noise about it!!

20

Monday, April 25th 2016, 8:29pm

....yeah yeah ok your right warr should do tank and stay useless in bgs^^ (makes my life more easy this way) and all the warriors in minc,asc are retardet cuz they play assault in cf those poor guys :/ (and the 100 of millions damage they do in this aspect are ofc worse than what they would do as a tank)

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