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Friday, January 16th 2015, 7:50am

Help choosing a pyro build?

To start with, my lil' psi has been an 'Astral' PvE since the very beggining. Now that he will soon reach greatness, I decided it's time to learn the so-called 'Pyro' build, wich a lot of psis seem to prefer over the one I use.

After a series of unsuccessful google-ing, I managed to find 3 variations of the 'Pyro' build... Since I don't have much experience with this one (all I knwo is that I loose my mobility, but my damage will beconsiderably higher), I want to ask you, guys, wich are the advantages and disadvatages of each of them (or if they are up-to-date, in the first place).

First build: http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!113..31…qfbnodd/UYHDVUD

Second build: http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!121..31…!kwcomc/AXQBNOD

Third build: http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!213..31…HAR!cid/UYHDVUD


First question that pops in my mind: do we even get that many rubies + talents? How many extra rubies do those builds actually take? (all 5 raid rubies? pvp one? class trainer one? greatness one?

Also, if you have a better option, I'd be greatful if you made a talent calculator for me (but alsoexplain why)

2

Friday, January 16th 2015, 11:15am

To start with, my lil' psi has been an 'Astral' PvE since the very beggining. Now that he will soon reach greatness, I decided it's time to learn the so-called 'Pyro' build, wich a lot of psis seem to prefer over the one I use.

There's a good reason for that. Pyro is simply higher numbers, even if you don't look at the extra damage added when not receiving concentration, the tooltip is higher than for Astral Venom.

After a series of unsuccessful google-ing, I managed to find 3 variations of the 'Pyro' build... Since I don't have much experience with this one (all I knwo is that I loose my mobility, but my damage will beconsiderably higher), I want to ask you, guys, wich are the advantages and disadvatages of each of them (or if they are up-to-date, in the first place).

First build: http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!113..31…qfbnodd/UYHDVUD

Second build: http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!121..31…!kwcomc/AXQBNOD

Third build: http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!213..31…HAR!cid/UYHDVUD

First question that pops in my mind: do we even get that many rubies + talents? How many extra rubies do those builds actually take? (all 5 raid rubies? pvp one? class trainer one? greatness one?


You should have +3 talents +12 rubies in the calculator with GT + Dead City + Class Quest + Battleground + Greatness + First Page + Second Page + Blue Talent Scroll + Epic Talent Scroll.
Subtract appropriate values if you don't have any of these.

Also, if you have a better option, I'd be greatful if you made a talent calculator for me (but alsoexplain why)


First build is the classic pyro that loses mobility almost entirely. I also think it has some mistakes in it, for example r2 will suppression would be much better than mental cleansing. It's highly annoying having it on cooldown when a target switch is needed. I'd also take r2 pulse instead of r2 astral breath. And Exodus, people want that.

Second build is a complete failure, it's pointless to discuss it at all, stupid ruby choices (manipulator, willpower, armor rubies for pve?!), choke r1? Most likely composed by someone with no idea what they are doing.

And finally the third - it's an attempt to make the Hybrid Venom/Pyro build. This build doesn't suffer as much when mobility is needed (stacks up nerves with astral venom while moving) and does excellent dps when able to stand still. It is from my experience the most effective psi dps build for PvE. It's only downside is that it requires a lot of rubies.

The version you linked still requires quite some "fixing". I'd move 2 rubies from Erase Memory damage and 3 from Shocking strike to 2 empty + moral trauma and 2 talents from astral breath to will suppression, also r3 pull and no thoughtful spirit is a huge mistake, I'd change those:

http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!213..31…ckipgbd/UYHDVUD
(4 empty, I know, Psi grid is a huge mess)

Now the trick to play it is to cast Pyro then immediately Astral Venom. If you cast Astral Venom before Pyro, this will place cooldown on Pyro, so never do it.

Rotation is: Pyro, Venom, Destab, (Thoughtful Spirit), Pyro, Venom, Destab, (Thoughtful Spirit) ad infinitum. (I don't care about burning tears rapidly, if you do you might want to skip Thoughtful Spirit)

You should almost never run out of Concentration with this, because (from my observation) when alternating Pyro and Venom, the added chance you get after failing to gain a Concentration stack seems to only be reset to zero upon gaining stack for whatever spell you gained the stack with, not both. You can even drop Concentration to r1 because of that, especially if you have access to Elf Racial.

Also make sure you have 3 stacks of Concentration before using Temporal Acceleration and still cast Destab whenever available even with it up, a Destab cast is still more damage than a guaranteed double tick, half cast time Pyro.

This post has been edited 6 times, last edit by "Dala" (Jan 16th 2015, 11:32am)


3

Friday, January 16th 2015, 12:38pm

First of all, thank you for the reply. You really helped me understand how this build works.

Secondly, the rubies are a problem (at least until 6.0, but, then again, that's another psi altogheter). Therefore, would you tell me wich of those are more important?

Finally, there are some skills that seem useless to me. Can you tell me what exactly is their purpose? *Please note that the main goal of this build should be grinding at Wellebell (or astral or w/e) and, even more importantly, doing the 'Highest Art Of Alchemy' quest. So...

1. Twin R1: the problem I have with this skill is that it probably won't offer much protection, especially with only 1 talent point. Or is it more of a "oh sh!t, I'm almost dead" kind of skill, like Time Loop? Another issue is that as far as I know, WS isn't enough to cast this spell; you would need Mental Link, wich takes time to cast :S

2. Why R3 on Hypno? I actually have it at R2 on my current build and... I never use it :/ I know a lot of psis recomand it, but I never understood why... In groups, someone is sure to disspell it after just a couple of seconds and in 1v1 you don't really got the time to use it

3. Mental Cleansing R1: Actually, I always thought a small healing skill would be nice. But the question is: would it do enough healing? Like, at least 5%-7%? Also, is the healing/mana ratio good enough?

4. This doesn't really have much to do with the skills, but still: I see you took both Aura and Seal. That seems ok, since depending on the role I have in the part/ what kind of monsters I'm fighting I would need to switch between the two. This makes me think about something: how much mana will a a pyro/hybrid psi cost? Say I'm grinding non stop for amals; is Superficial Trance enough to keep my mana pool full, or will I need to constantly use Martyr? (considering I use Aura) Also, wouldn't Aura make Mental Cleansing even more useless, since, as far as I remember, it drastically reduces healing?

Thanks' in advance!!!

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Ursula" (Jan 16th 2015, 12:47pm)


4

Friday, January 16th 2015, 1:08pm

Secondly, the rubies are a problem (at least until 6.0, but, then again, that's another psi altogheter).

It's not. Psi receives almost no changes outside of some very minor fixes and a damage boost.

Finally, there are some skills that seem useless to me. Can you tell me what exactly is their purpose? *Please note that the main goal of this build should be grinding at Wellebell (or astral or w/e) and, even more importantly, doing the 'Highest Art Of Alchemy' quest. So...

You touched on one of psi's bigger problems. The best dps build for group activities is absolutely terrible and borderline unusable for solo play due to mechanics of Pyro (stacks reducing cast time, cast time push back on damage) and a lack of defenses (which you don't need when you have a tank). The best solo play build gives subpar dps for group activities. Until you get greatness, it's a choice - you solo good and do bad in groups or the other way around.

1. Twin R1: the problem I have with this skill is that it probably won't offer much protection, especially with only 1 talent point. Or is it more of a "oh sh!t, I'm almost dead" kind of skill, like Time Loop? Another issue is that as far as I know, WS isn't enough to cast this spell; you would need Mental Link, wich takes time to cast :S

One point is a very small investment and Twin makes huge difference, it offers just enough protection for other skills (pulse/ecto) to come off cooldown. Psi defense is about rotating your abilities.

About cast time, it's the same problem as above - for solo build you DO WANT 50% cast time Mental Link rubies which you don't need for group.

2. Why R3 on Hypno? I actually have it at R2 on my current build and... I never use it :/ I know a lot of psis recomand it, but I never understood why... In groups, someone is sure to disspell it after just a couple of seconds and in 1v1 you don't really got the time to use it

Hypno is an all or nothing skill, you either take r3 or not at all. Under r3 is way too slow cast. Even r3 is very hard to use and requires you to play with smart people. Doing successful 2-target CC in Astral as a Psi is a titanic effort which can be utterly ruined by a single point of damage on CC-ed target. When someone DoTs a target it renders Hypno unusable. This terrible flaw is getting fixed with 6.0 though.

If people you go Astral with expect you to do CC, you can demand they don't fuck it up and allow you to do your thing, if they don't - don't take Hypno.

For solo play you can use it to buy some time for other abilities to go off cooldown.

It's really no big deal if you don't take it at all, chance you meet people who understand it's limitations and allow you to use it properly is like 1 in a million.

3. Mental Cleansing R1: Actually, I always thought a small healing skill would be nice. But the question is: would it do enough healing? Like, at least 5%-7%? Also, is the healing/mana ratio good enough?

It's healing for almost nothing compared to any other healing skill in the game, the reason people take it is to dispel a debuff sometimes for which r1 is more than enough.

4. This doesn't really have much to do with the skills, but still: I see you took both Aura and Seal. That seems ok, since depending on the role I have in the part/ what kind of monsters I'm fighting I would need to switch between the two. But this makes me think about something: how much mana will a a pyro/hybrid psi cost? Say I'm grinding non stop for amals; is Superficial Trance enough to keep my mana pool full, or will I need to constantly use Martyr? (to give you an idea, with the current build I do it like this: kill lvl 51-55 monster with 1, 2 or 3 venoms, then WS on spark, then Pulse/Pul followed by special WS skill. then Ecto+choke, then 1 final venom wich kills them due to the 5 outsmarted stacks)

For Amalgam quest you want to use seal, the speed you can do it at is capped with Extractor cooldown anyway so past a point more dps doesn't contribute in any way. For PvE you should be using 2-handed weapon (fists), it gives much more mana and mana regen than a 1h. I also suggest using potions of magical power crafted from alchemy, they are very cheap and make a big difference at lower gear levels.

And a final note, if your main goal is solo activities (Wild Shore/Alchemy) then forget pyro completely, go with a solo-focused build that has defensive and utility skills.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Dala" (Jan 16th 2015, 1:15pm)


5

Friday, January 16th 2015, 6:20pm

So, would you mind giving me a build that would suit my 'solitaire' style (indeed, I mainly do ama q + Wild Shore for gold) I'm reaching greatness tommorow, so I need to decide. Here is my current build, with all talents and rubies avaible right now. Do you think it's good enough and I can make a PvP build just for fun, or should I remplace it with a proper PvE build, that would fit my desires and let me get the best of my class?

http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!313....…CN!weoh/MYHDVUD

6

Saturday, January 17th 2015, 12:44am

So, would you mind giving me a build that would suit my 'solitaire' style (indeed, I mainly do ama q + Wild Shore for gold) I'm reaching greatness tommorow, so I need to decide. Here is my current build, with all talents and rubies avaible right now. Do you think it's good enough and I can make a PvP build just for fun, or should I remplace it with a proper PvE build, that would fit my desires and let me get the best of my class?

http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!313....…CN!weoh/MYHDVUD


For PvP you'd need PvP specific things like Mind Fire, Sharp Incursion, maxed Twin, maxed Astral Body, Master of Illusions. PvP build would be even more different.

I'd do something like that for pure solo PvE:

http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!213...1…G!kqnae/UYHDVUD

Or without Hypno, but r3 Ecto Form and Body instead.
If you don't like Choke that much you can swap 80% slow rubies to 2 empty cells and Superficial Trance.

7

Saturday, January 17th 2015, 5:17pm

So, would you mind giving me a build that would suit my 'solitaire' style (indeed, I mainly do ama q + Wild Shore for gold) I'm reaching greatness tommorow, so I need to decide. Here is my current build, with all talents and rubies avaible right now. Do you think it's good enough and I can make a PvP build just for fun, or should I remplace it with a proper PvE build, that would fit my desires and let me get the best of my class?

http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!313....…CN!weoh/MYHDVUD


For PvP you'd need PvP specific things like Mind Fire, Sharp Incursion, maxed Twin, maxed Astral Body, Master of Illusions. PvP build would be even more different.

I'd do something like that for pure solo PvE:

http://en.allodswiki.ru/calc/#!6!213...1…G!kqnae/UYHDVUD

Or without Hypno, but r3 Ecto Form and Body instead.
If you don't like Choke that much you can swap 80% slow rubies to 2 empty cells and Superficial Trance.


Ok, I made that build, without hypno and I got Superficial Trance. But, happily, I have 4 rubies left... so, should I take the 80%slow rubies or go for Astral Curse instead (I do remember it was a great damage dealer :3)

8

Saturday, January 17th 2015, 6:19pm

Ok, I made that build, without hypno and I got Superficial Trance. But, happily, I have 4 rubies left... so, should I take the 80%slow rubies or go for Astral Curse instead (I do remember it was a great damage dealer :3)


Not really. Look at the tooltip, it's a little bit more than one Astral Venom cast - which is very weak. The 80% slow choke rubies are good only for fighting elite mobs though.

9

Sunday, January 18th 2015, 1:28pm

Ok, I made that build, without hypno and I got Superficial Trance. But, happily, I have 4 rubies left... so, should I take the 80%slow rubies or go for Astral Curse instead (I do remember it was a great damage dealer :3)


Not really. Look at the tooltip, it's a little bit more than one Astral Venom cast - which is very weak. The 80% slow choke rubies are good only for fighting elite mobs though.


I see. So, what should I use the final rubies for, then? The choke ones really aren't very useful in solo activities and, yes, i do see your point about astra curse. Anythong else that might proove to be useful?

10

Sunday, January 18th 2015, 3:42pm

I see. So, what should I use the final rubies for, then? The choke ones really aren't very useful in solo activities and, yes, i do see your point about astra curse. Anythong else that might proove to be useful?


Another thing that's good and makes difference in solo play is Wall of Blades mana cost/cast time rubies, but they are quite far.

11

Sunday, January 18th 2015, 4:04pm

i dont see how choke is NOT effective for playing solo
actually it is a geat way of beeing conservative with concentration stacks and does a LOT of damage, especially with all its rubies
when using ecto choke can be done without any worries

the only problem are the mobs with shield (-> solution = use choke only AFTER shield)
and those who CC-pull you (-> solution = use choke only AFTER cc-pull)

but i know its kinda personal preference any many psis dont like choke :P

12

Sunday, January 18th 2015, 6:43pm

i dont see how choke is NOT effective for playing solo
actually it is a geat way of beeing conservative with concentration stacks and does a LOT of damage, especially with all its rubies
when using ecto choke can be done without any worries

the only problem are the mobs with shield (-> solution = use choke only AFTER shield)
and those who CC-pull you (-> solution = use choke only AFTER cc-pull)

but i know its kinda personal preference any many psis dont like choke :P


I have nothing against choke. It's actualy my main attack skill when I fight solo-able monsters. However, I don't see the point of investing 3 rubies just to make the enemy 80% slower, since they ussually only get to hit the twin/the astral body either way.

13

Sunday, January 18th 2015, 7:07pm

its true that the slowdown effect of the rubies is not this great (and often useless if mobs gain cc immunity :( )
myself, i only take them to reduce cd of choke and to reach the moral trauma
the cd reduction is worth it for me

14

Sunday, January 18th 2015, 8:13pm

its true that the slowdown effect of the rubies is not this great (and often useless if mobs gain cc immunity :( )
myself, i only take them to reduce cd of choke and to reach the moral trauma
the cd reduction is worth it for me

That is true. That's why I'm still not sure if to take those rubies or the Astral Curse ones, wich are still pretty usefull considering I'm a fan of both Tele Pull and Mental Pulse. Even ten, I don't know how to invest the very last rubie :/

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