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21

Monday, April 25th 2016, 8:50pm

Becouse they are freakin 80k gs's with 10lvl+ runes. They can afford it. They are also only for dps supports and in bg they can kill anybody only with pure dps, no pvp build required when there is running a lot of low geared ppl. If there is player with same gs as warr with assault aspect, warr dies as fast as scout. Warr with defender aspect is not always a tank, he can also dps, depending on build.
Stop this off-topic right now.
This thread is not about warriors, pallas or general discussion about all the characters, this thread is about healing characters with op self-healing abilities that overshadows everyone else in dps and their survivability. If you have no further arguments about these characters, please do not comment.

22

Monday, April 25th 2016, 9:01pm

Ghost

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Alıntı

Thats what I wan't change. Healing characters are almost unbeatable. Healing aspect is fine for sacrifice of their dps, but they shouldnt be anything like bosses that whole your team has to focus on.
And I am also not talking only about full-healers. The problem is, that they can do nice dps, cc you, fill you with negative buffs and on top of all of this they are also healing! Result - healer wins with 100% heals.
You know, there is my example: I am a warrior 74k gs with flawless pvp build on defender aspect (yes i believe in this build that much), there is a melee healer 64k gs, similar runes and patronage. I can spam 40% heal reduction but almost with no effect, and deal nice damage. My problem is, that HEALER can kill me on my own playground and leave with 100% health while his health havent dropped under 50% for whole fight.
I am not fighting againt summys, healers and wardens anymore since they can dps me and constantly throw healing spell on themselves. There is no point.


If your team can't properly focus a priority target, or chain cc, or work together, wut are yu doin playin an mmorpg???

AFAIK healer wardens and summies only have like one or two ccs, and with warden in particular, if you go attack/support aspect your heals are absolute garbage.

23

Monday, April 25th 2016, 9:01pm

Dude, you clearly have no idea what are you talking about, regarding to a warrior. It also looks like you are ignoring all what we are writing you about warrior. Again exclusively for you: ASSAULT ASPECT IS USELESS- you got it?? Thats all you have to know about warrior if you dont play it. End of story.
Sorry, that I have to say it directly, but you talk bullshit.

When you say: "ASSAULT ASPECT IS USELESS", you just show your lack off experience with the warrior. You, sorry, just can't play it. Don't blame others for your own missing skills.

24

Monday, April 25th 2016, 9:27pm

@Llandrysgryf: Good, clever pointless cliche. Very helpful. Just like something out of facebook.

@Ghost: We already have progressed far away from discussion about aspect of healing on a Healer. Just to remind you: Healer shouldnt be able to do much damage with healing aspect and also shouldnt be killed 1v1 with this aspect. Well it's not that fully true today.
The problem are other aspects, in which he can do a decent damage and also do op self heal.

Hitted geese always squeals the most.
I was ready for this many negative comments from players that play these characters.

Bu mesaj 2 defa düzenlendi, son düzenlemeyi yapan "RedCatCZ" (Apr 25th 2016, 9:34pm)


25

Monday, April 25th 2016, 9:44pm

so to put a solution for those who care about the actual problem, warrior vs healer:

stack massively bloodlust
then you can heal the damage the healer does (no longer times of beeing thirsty due to holy shield!! this is a very important thing!)

and if its not a healer in healingaspect but support or damage then you should be able to kill him anyway, if not you lack damage (=gear, runes, spec, experience, etc)

26

Monday, April 25th 2016, 9:59pm

rozetri

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Becouse they are freakin 80k gs's with 10lvl+ runes. They can afford it. They are also only for dps supports and in bg they can kill anybody only with pure dps, no pvp build required when there is running a lot of low geared ppl. If there is player with same gs as warr with assault aspect, warr dies as fast as scout. Warr with defender aspect is not always a tank, he can also dps, depending on build.
Stop this off-topic right now.
This thread is not about warriors, pallas or general discussion about all the characters, this thread is about healing characters with op self-healing abilities that overshadows everyone else in dps and their survivability. If you have no further arguments about these characters, please do not comment.
You claim this is off-topic, but I believe it strikes right at the very heart of your argument. You claim that every class should be able to overcome a healer's self-heals in 1v1. Does that means every build should be able to? Should a build that, by your own admission, sacrifices damage for survivability be able to destroy someone whose only purpose is to heal? If so, what do you expect to happen when five people who ARE built for damage come down on that healer's head?

They'll instantly explode, with no recourse or defense. You can't just avoid their death by CCing the enemies, given willpower is a thing. If you have two healers so that they heal each other, there's effectively no change in how things work, other than changing party composition. And really, I don't think you care about group fights, given you only brought this up because of 1v1s. And that's the kicker: Allods Online is not designed for 1v1 combat. It has ALWAYS been designed around group combat. And even then, the game does okay with it, barring this exact situation where a full healer can often outheal someone else in 1v1.

This is not always true. I've seen healers get wrecked 1v1. But I can guarantee you this, it wasn't by someone that was focused on survival over damage, it was by someone that was focused on damage and LOTS of it in a single burst. Tank spec warriors in PvP are AMAZINGLY useful. But their job is not to wreck the enemy healer, their job is to apply pressure to the enemy team to force the healer to decide between healing them and healing themself. With the new, longer global, that decision is a whole lot more difficult.

Signed: An Engineer, A Class Not Designed To Kill Healers
IGN: Rozetri
Class: Xadaganian Great Avenger - Lv.75
Guild: Ascendancy (Valiance)
Server: New Frontier (Tensess)
Ship: IndigoSky

27

Monday, April 25th 2016, 10:36pm

@ ^

Alıntı

I have problem that healing characters wins a fights with 100% hp at the end, becouse of a lot of effective healing spells. They should be equal to any other character if they are not fully-heal with very low damage.

Again, if the healer is not full-healer with healing aspect, he should be equal to any other character in pvp 1vs1. He shouldnt be able to win with 100% hp vs same geared player, AND he defenitely shouldnt be able to defeat player that has 10k more gs and leave with 100% hp. This does not smells right.
You should go check arena from time to time and just analyse.

28

Monday, April 25th 2016, 11:07pm

rozetri

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@ ^

Alıntı

I have problem that healing characters wins a fights with 100% hp at the end, becouse of a lot of effective healing spells. They should be equal to any other character if they are not fully-heal with very low damage.

Again, if the healer is not full-healer with healing aspect, he should be equal to any other character in pvp 1vs1. He shouldnt be able to win with 100% hp vs same geared player, AND he defenitely shouldnt be able to defeat player that has 10k more gs and leave with 100% hp. This does not smells right.
You should go check arena from time to time and just analyse.
Why shouldn't he? If he outplays you, he should absolutely be able to smoke you with 100% HP. If anyone has 10k gearscore less than you and beats you by that wide a margin, that's likely exactly what happened. Not to claim that you're a poor player or that I'm a spectacular one, but I can recognize when I got my ass handed to me with garnish. Additionally, this is not to say that the three classes you mentioned are totally okay. Summy, for instance, gets massive changes in 7.1 such that most of their rubies are assigned to an aspect, as opposed their current state where almost none are assigned. I wouldn't be surprised if Healers and Wardens will require changes or nerfs in the future, too, for certain aspects.

But all of this is just an aside to my original intended point that you have flaws in your base argument. Chief among these is that you're making complaints about 1v1, a situation that this game has NEVER excelled at in all of the years of its release and likely never will given its high priority placed on group combat.
IGN: Rozetri
Class: Xadaganian Great Avenger - Lv.75
Guild: Ascendancy (Valiance)
Server: New Frontier (Tensess)
Ship: IndigoSky

29

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 4:50am

Ghost

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@Ghost: We already have progressed far away from discussion about aspect of healing on a Healer. Just to remind you: Healer shouldnt be able to do much damage with healing aspect and also shouldnt be killed 1v1 with this aspect. Well it's not that fully true today.
The problem are other aspects, in which he can do a decent damage and also do op self heal.


And it seems I will have to remind you again: If healing classes aren't in healer aspect, their self heals are absolutely garbage. Heal specs must take an entire tree of healing rubies, 90% of which are not available in damage or support aspects, to even be able to heal a moderate amount. The "50% warden healing" WM spell? Garbage. 3 minute cooldown, HoT over 10 seconds. Healing Mist - Terrible HoT heals as support/attack aspect. Use restoration potions, martyr, astral potions - much more effective because they are instantaneous rather than a HoT.

I have seen ONE pvp/dps spec plate healer on the entire P2P server. I killed him in 1v1 in a pure pve warden build (super squish, no cc).

TL;DR: There is no issue with healing. Just another whiny player who thinks he should be able to 1v1 anyone as a warrior in tank aspect. :thumbdown:

Bu mesaj 1 defa düzenlendi, son düzenlemeyi yapan "Ghost" (Apr 26th 2016, 6:29am)


30

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 7:41am

There are a healers that can heal almost constantly and you CANT stop it, on non-healing aspects. If you try to cc him, his Hp regenerated 70k/sec! If you dont cc them, he will just use his own heals.
We can't really take you comparison about your warden duel with a healer seriously, becouse ofc there are terrible players with terrible builds, but there are also skillful players with good builds-there is not much of them, but they are there! And if you meet such a players, you will not beat them even with your flawless build. -Dont understand me wrong, skill if fine, what I am talking is chance, same chances for both players. Even skillful player wouldnt be able to kill such a skillflul healers if there are not same chances.
Pallas with shield on assault aspect, high dps and tanky + dps healers with good healings, on support aspect. There is really no more characters needed in this game.

You are really god damn playing with my nerves when you mention this defenders aspect. If you dont understand the issue about a warrior, please create your own thread and I will freaking teach you in a details just for you, long essay, why assault aspect is a crap and why defenders aspect is not used by tanks only, but also by a dps warriors, and why do high gs players use this assault aspect if it's such a crap.

All characters should be equal, same chances in pvp. This is not a rock-paper-scissors game.

31

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 8:41am

I just want to say there is no point to cry when you play tank warrior and not able to kill healers. You want balance but the thing you want (kill people in aspect of defense) is another story itself. You say DPS warriors take it too. I can see reason behind it that hp bonus is really good but you should know that picking that aspect sacrifice huge dps. So you are fucking yourself. Wanna kill someone pick dps aspect wanna live longer pick defense aspect. Dont cry on forums.
poot poot poot poot poot... POOTIE!! YOU'VE BEEN POOTED!!!


32

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 9:31am

If I wanted do discuss about warriors, I would create another thread in relevant section. Dps aspect on warrior is just a support with all the meanings that are connected to a meaning of being pure dps support. Nothing like support aspect on another classes. Assault aspect warrior wouldnt even stand a chance in such a fight.
Stop this OT right now! It's not about warriors vs healing characters, it's not about me, and I will report you for fallacy next time if you have no arguments and only offend me. I see only players that plays healing characters here crying the most (not all).

I would appreciate constructive non-offending criticism so we can advance forward.
I say, that healing characters should have only 1 avaiable healing spell, and exclusively for Healer: they would have only 1 avaiable healing spell only on Support and Dps aspect. Healing aspect healer would stay the same with all its self-healing spells.

33

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 12:46pm

So you are saying 1 heal for every aspect. Are you serious or you are just kidding? Do you think Healer with 1 heal would be fun to play. Spam same thing over and over and over again. What is next are you gonna ask for 1 attack skill for dps classes because they hit too much or 1 debuff for every aspect. Also dont get me wrong im not try to offend you at all because you are not worth it. Saying that a healer should spam 1 heal.

Feel free to report me. You are the only one who cries about it. Also i must say pure dps support warrior make me smile. Thank you for making me smile :D
poot poot poot poot poot... POOTIE!! YOU'VE BEEN POOTED!!!


34

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 12:55pm

You havent even read my suggestion. You writing about pears while I am writing about apples. You are just an angry troll. Why do oyu even comment if you don't know what you comment on. Whole issue lays on self-healing spells.

35

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 1:31pm

I would appreciate constructive non-offending criticism so we can advance forward.
I say, that healing characters should have only 1 avaiable healing spell, and exclusively for Healer: they would have only 1 avaiable healing spell only on Support and Dps aspect. Healing aspect healer would stay the same with all its self-healing spells.


It is pretty obvious what you mean. Calling people angry troll when you cant deal with truth. Im talking about what you said. If you dont know what you said. My friend i think you shoul go to hospital as fast as you can. You just try to butcher a class that based on healing. I must say agree with 1 point yeah they are unkillable but they cant kill you also. Self-healing or healing is just excuse for you to flame. Aspects are not determine what role you play in pvp. They are just boost to what you want to do.Giving a heal to aspect would destroy uniqueness of build. And push people to use some skills.
poot poot poot poot poot... POOTIE!! YOU'VE BEEN POOTED!!!


36

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 1:52pm

You started it, you started to offend me with no arguments, acting like an angry troll. You havent brought anything constructive yet, and so I warn you. Do not freaking offend me. I warn you for a last time. Keep on freaking topic. If oyu dont understand what topic is about, do not write at all.

Stop it right now and come back with a good mood, so you can perform on some possitive level.

So there we go... (and this is how I want you to argument):
Aspect are not a boosts, aspects are the ways, which you may chose to go. If ppl do hight damage, they shouldnt be able to use the same healing spells to constantly heal. You are basicaly saying that every character should have healing spells and it would be ok. You are basically saying that warrior with assault aspect or scouts), weak like a paper should have a healing spells too. Thats what I understand from what you said.
No. If you dont choose to be a full-healer, you shouldnt be able to be unkillable. Aspect of assault, aspect of support - I wan't only 1 avaiable self-healing spell for these types of healers. If they choose to have any other healing spell, fine, but they wouldnt be albe to use it on themselves.
Healing aspect on healer: everything is alright. We have already advanced from it far away. I don't know why did you stuck on this. Healers with healing aspects are unkillable in 1v1 and it should stay this way assuming that they wont be able to do more damage faster than bloodlust heals his opponent.

37

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 2:10pm

Still saying angry troll. You started this topic. I said it was no sense. I try to reach you as human beings and what i get is angry troll. You are just loser just accept and move on. Still you are the ONE and only person who cries about it.

Have a good day :D

Edit: I think you should come here with a good mood. Not after get rekt by some healer. :D
Edit2: No i never said warriors scouts need healing spells where do i get that can you quote it please? I tried to say if they want do more damage go aspect of assault want to be more tanky pick aspect of defense. Either way they are still boost. They increase healing done (boost) increase total hp (boost) increase damage done (boost). Also stop call everyone troll. Its just pathetic way to insult someone.
poot poot poot poot poot... POOTIE!! YOU'VE BEEN POOTED!!!

Bu mesaj 1 defa düzenlendi, son düzenlemeyi yapan "Ginko" (Apr 26th 2016, 2:20pm)


38

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 2:26pm

I will make it easy for you!!!!

Me...Full Healer (no dps skills on hotbar)
One other person...Scout

Go to s1 Scout tells me pretty much to stand around with a thumb up my bum and not to heal him because he wants to check out his bloodlust.

After allod is done...I have new gear, combat thingys and didn't do any work!!!

Bloodlust for the win.

Have you really ever taken into account that maybe just maybe this mh you are talking about has way more bloodlust then you think they do? I have literally been out-healed by this same scout.

39

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 2:27pm

rozetri

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Personally I think you're beginning to act rather immaturely, threatening people with reporting and attempting to back-seat mod all conversation. The reason we keep bringing up the warrior is because YOU brought it up first as an example of a situation where you should have won in 100% of all fights. Your explanation was, in essence, "because I'm geared better." That's not how good games should work. Gear is vital, but skill is even more important. Did it never occur to your in all of your analysis of your 1v1s and BGs that maybe your opponent was just better at countering you?

But you know what, I'll entertain your suggestion. You want all healing characters in non-heal aspects to only have access to one ability to heal themselves. These classes are currently intended to at least some degree to be based around healing as their primary means of sustain in a fight. If you strip that away, what are you going to give them in exchange? Your suggested healing spells are not very good and place a rather heavy limitation on being able to move from fight to fight, reducing available strategies in group fights. Particularly for the Healer and Warden, without any useful heals, why should they ever run in specs other than Heal? You're creating a system whereby there is only one viable path in group fights with other players, which is exceptionally dull.
IGN: Rozetri
Class: Xadaganian Great Avenger - Lv.75
Guild: Ascendancy (Valiance)
Server: New Frontier (Tensess)
Ship: IndigoSky

40

Tuesday, April 26th 2016, 2:29pm

Then act like an adult and give up on your offending comments on my personality. You havent added not a single argument yet, only insults, offtopic, and fallacy - pls learn what it is.
You havent said a single argument about WHY it has no sence yet. The only thing I get from your post is, that you didn't get my suggestion.

Alıntı

no point to cry when you play tank warrior and not able to kill healers

-unfamiliarity of the issue

Alıntı

Dont cry on forums.

Alıntı

So you are saying 1 heal for every aspect. Are you serious or you are just kidding?

Alıntı

Calling people angry troll when you cant deal with truth. Im talking about what you said. If you dont know what you said. My friend i think you shoul go to hospital as fast as you can.

Alıntı

You are the only one who cries about it. Also i must say pure dps support warrior make me smile. Thank you for making me smile

-This and all your comments are based on unfamiliarity of the issue, insults, provocations, offtopic. You clearly have no idea about warriors.
Thats why I named you angry troll, becouse you act like that, and you are still staying troll for me.

Alıntı

Self-healing or healing is just excuse for you to flame. Aspects are not determine what role you play in pvp. They are just boost to what you want to do.

please give me healing boost to my role too thx.

Have a nice day

@Teegin: Cool, there is a bloodlust in the game. What a surprice. Everybody can use it. Didnt really knew it.

@rozetri:

Alıntı

Gear is vital, but skill is even more important

-skill is based on ballance. YOu cant write about skill if there are not same chances for everybody. There wastn even a chance to beat that healer- cc, constantly throwing healing spells, decent damage. Where is the ballance?
Finnal result of the fight: he won with 100% hp at the end. I wouldnt be even mad if he actually won by skill, but this is just a flawless 1v1/ mass pvp-universal build.

Edit:

Alıntı

why should they ever run in specs other than Heal?

Well, maybe they like to throw powerfull spells instead on focusing on healing? If they do, they shouldnt be able to use all healing spells on themselves that makes them unkillable, but 1 basic healing spell just for something like a "patch". BUT they would be still able to support their allies with their healing spells just like it is right now. Where is the problem?? Want to be dps? suppoer? FINE BUT YOU WONT BE UNKILLABLE in 1v1

Bu mesaj 6 defa düzenlendi, son düzenlemeyi yapan "RedCatCZ" (Apr 26th 2016, 2:55pm)


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