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1

Wednesday, April 2nd 2014, 12:39am

Resha

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Hybrid build (melee + caster)

Hello guys,

even if stats have changed for this update, nothing else fundamental have changed, so I decided to keep most of the hybrid PVE build I played so far:
http://pts.allodswiki.ru/calc#!5!333.2.3…C!ycbtb/OMYWWHB

The philosophy is quite simple : do as much DPS as possible, and even more than other classes. This works pretty well in single target; but for sure, we cannot be compared to demo, war, mage or bard in multi targets. But still, the bear strike is really a nice AOE.
I don't really care about making balm, they are so useless since we can craft them with alchemy even faster.

The bad news with this 5.0, is that our DPS has been a bit nerf, especially Clout; but our single target DPS can still be compared to other classes. I hope that 5.1 will up us again :)

Here is my rotation :

Depending on the party, I remove rubis on ferocity to put them in the renew rubis.
Drood retraité !

2

Wednesday, April 2nd 2014, 8:55am

Ninim

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Very nice! I'm sure this is very close to optimal for a pure DPS build :)

Have you tried this with claws instead of 2h? I did some testing on a dummy the other day and I found that claws with 6 rubies (damage + combo) do pretty much the same DPS as 2h with those 3 rubies when you simply spam Clout - but it also feels to me like the claw combo cooldown fits better with the Vortex / Lightning rotation, so overall in a hybrid build it might be better. And since on this 2h build you're wasting two rubies to get to the crit damage, you would only really need one more to get the claw rubies (you could drop Nature's Grip or something to get it).

I'm just theorizing though, it's been like 2 years since I last did any real raids myself >.<

3

Wednesday, April 2nd 2014, 11:34am

Resha

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At update 4.0.4, I made a lot of tests using most common builds in order to find which one gave the optimal DPS:

#1- 2h hybrid build (mine)
http://pts.allodswiki.ru/calc#!5!333.2.3…C!ycbtb/OMYWWHB

#2- Claw hybrid build (using the same rotation as mine)
http://pts.allodswiki.ru/calc#!5!333.2.3…C!ycbtb/OMYWWHB

#3- Claw melee build (using Netzach's rotation)
http://pts.allodswiki.ru/calc#!5!333.3.3…C!ycbtb/OMYWWHB

#4- "Classical" Magic build
http://pts.allodswiki.ru/calc#!5!333...3…D!ycbtb/OMYWWHB

#5- 2h melee build
http://pts.allodswiki.ru/calc#!5!333...3…C!ycbtb/OMYWWHB

Here are my conclusions:
  • #1: with 2h mace or spear gives the best DPS in both single & multi targets (a little preference for the spear).
  • #2: with claws. The gameplay is pretty much the same than #1, but the DPS is little bit less in single target and drop down in multi. I think the problem come from Cloud's CD which is 4 sec when having combo rubis, it delays my rotation, but not sure.
  • #3: pretty fun, don't have any cast. But, the tiger strike does really low damages and can't be compared to whirlwind + firebolt damages from the 2 first builds.
  • #4: well known build. It works but damages are lower than 2 first builds. The fact is that in term of pure damage : [ whirlwind + clout (+ loaded weapon) + firebolt ] > [ whirlwind + whirlwind + firebolt ].
  • #5: cannot work at all since clout and falcon strike share the same CD. Even with rubis to decrease falcon CD. Falcon will never does the same DPS as whirlwind + firebolt
So if I had to make a comparison, I'd say somehting like:

#1 > [a bit higher than] #2 >> [higher than] #3 ~ [more or less] #4 >>> [really higher than] #5

But again, these comparisons were true during 4.0.4, but not retested since 5.0. I think there are pretty much the same since nothing really changed apart from the statistics and the nerf of critical rate.
After less than 2 weeks, the new stats to handle + many bugs appeared with 5.0 (especially pet's latency), it's not easy to know where is the warden compared to other classes. I think he's been nerf a little, I feel that clout has been nerf compared to other skills.
Drood retraité !

4

Wednesday, April 2nd 2014, 12:39pm

Ninim

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Thanks a lot, really interesting! I love how you've managed to make Charged Weapon useful in your rotation - I used to consider those rubies absolutely useless because you'll want to use your Static Charge stacks as soon as possible, but then, in the past Vortex never gave 3 stacks with one cast :P

I think hybrid builds are by definition the best for pure DPS. With any other kind of a build (caster or melee) you're missing out on a lot of damage increase rubies - with a hybrid build you can utilize pretty much all of them without losing much, at least in terms of DPS.

5

Wednesday, April 2nd 2014, 1:35pm

Resha

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Yeah, with this build / rotation, I can exploit all benefits of every skills I use.
The only negative point I saw is that I burn mana as hell ! Probably the most mana consuming build (especially in AOE) all classes / builds taken in account xD
Drood retraité !

6

Thursday, April 3rd 2014, 7:43pm

Scavenger

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so , what does the old endurance rubies increase?


plus what is the use of determination if the pet is taking all damage?

should take morte for caster in PvP?

مُشْرِف سَابِقْ في اللودز العَرَبِيّة

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Scavenger" (Apr 3rd 2014, 8:18pm)


7

Thursday, April 3rd 2014, 8:22pm

Resha

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Old endurance rubis now decrease the rate of critical hit you receive. It's not a stat anymore.

For the determination, look at your pet during battles, you will see that your pet has its own determination bar. Since he's at melee range and so do I, we take damages (even if I try to take as less as possible) so our determination bar is not at 0.
That's why I take those rubis.

And Morte is really nice for PVP, it's like you put -50% incoming healing on your target, priceless to finish him
Drood retraité !

8

Thursday, April 3rd 2014, 8:48pm

Ziobreck

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I have a little question do you think full caster build looks so bad? When i'll have time i try post one or two and i'm open at all suggest :D
Never stop fighting for what you believe in

9

Thursday, April 3rd 2014, 9:22pm

Resha

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Full caster builds are not so bad. They cost less rubis and so you can take off-heal rubis.
But in terms of DPS there is a real gap between caster build and hybrid build ^^
Drood retraité !

10

Tuesday, April 8th 2014, 8:08pm

pretty nice builds^^ but 1 thing is strange you got the 1 hand rubees and the 2 hand rubees ... does that make sense or do they push both?^^

11

Tuesday, April 8th 2014, 9:25pm

Resha

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Well, before 5.0, I would say definitively yes, they worth it! Because Clout and Bear strike were really powerful.
Now with the chance rate nerf, I can admit that they give lower bonus. So if you want to save 4 rubis, you may choose something else ^^
Drood retraité !

12

Wednesday, April 9th 2014, 4:12pm

no what i mean is you will probably not switch 1 and 2 hand from fight to fight right?^^ so why 1 hand and 2 hand rubees?^^

13

Wednesday, April 9th 2014, 6:39pm

Resha

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Those two 1h rubis are useless for me, but it's the shortest way to take "Natural cruauty" (critical damage bonus) rubis behind.
Drood retraité !

14

Wednesday, April 9th 2014, 7:13pm

ah k^^ thought they had a false description or something like this^^ i myself didnt take the crit rubees cause well i didnt crit often enough for my taste :pinch:

15

Thursday, April 10th 2014, 12:18pm

Scavenger

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ok so far since the patch , am using paired fists , not bad in PvE , pretty good dps

still , cant figure out a PvP build which can fit me well , its annoying to follow people in PvP to hit them , especially in fighting melee classes

مُشْرِف سَابِقْ في اللودز العَرَبِيّة


16

Thursday, April 24th 2014, 9:13am

Ghost

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Thank you, Resha! I had loved my caster/pet warden up until the 51 patch, but I lost interest once the nerf hit; I felt like I was being forced into a melee role and I became frustrated and quit. Now I've made a new warden and this thread helped me create an enjoyable build that reminds me of the old days. My interest has been renewed!

I need some help though, please. On most astral allods I feel like I can't get close enough to clout. Almost everything has a permanent aoe or strong dot, or bosses spam knockbacks that throw and slow, or things must be kited. I've died many times and have taken so much damage that I worry about getting in melee range, and I am much too scared to melee in raids. My DPS suffers. Do you have any tips or general advice for getting around this problem? I do not have much experience with melee classes. Thanks in advance!

PS: Are you entering the PMB event? You should if you are able to :D

17

Thursday, April 24th 2014, 9:42am

Resha

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One part of the job when you play an hybrid build is to know the strategy for each mob. It's somehow exiting because unlike caster where you put your ass far from the mobs and just spam your skills, here you are constantly in movement (forward or backward), the placement is really important and hybrid builds allow you to hit in any circonstance: melee or distance (but you do more damage with clout).

So I would say: yes, sometimes you can't approach the mobs or the boss and it's quite frustrating. But most of time, mobs are doing frontal AOE, or you can predict few seconds earlier when they will do their big AOE (for example they targetting themself).
You can also speak with your tank, normally if he's not too bad, he knows whether it's risky or not.

About the PMB, I won't participate this time. I already did last time and nothing really changed since 4.0.3 except the statistics (even if I really want the wings :love: ).
Anyway, you can find my old participation (in french) here: http://pimpmyresha.weebly.com/
Moreover I find the warden too much bugged since 5.0: the pet is completely drunk, he has high latency and I really don't like it.
Maybe if there is another PMB for 5.0.1, with Warden's overhaul I will have a lot to say ^^
Drood retraité !

18

Thursday, April 24th 2014, 3:26pm

Ghost

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Thank you very much for your reply c: I'll keep practicing and learning!

19

Sunday, April 27th 2014, 12:55pm

Hello,
I have a fast question(hope it wont be a spam). What's the best reincarnation for Warden? I need to know if there are some skills that are more beneficial for Wardens than others. I'm thinking about Summoner and Howl of Death as an addition to dps in pve and Fear as great skill in pvp. Any thoughts are welcome :)
Muriel - Avarice - Smugglers Paradise - League
http://avariceao.shivtr.com/

20

Sunday, April 27th 2014, 6:37pm

Resha

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I didn't test damages of howl of death in pve, but the fear is good in pvp. Personnaly, as I play in melee range I took the charge of paladin to get closer fast. Maybe at the next update cleric's shield or the self heal (don't know the name in english :() will be good for healer build.
Drood retraité !

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