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1

Tuesday, May 30th 2017, 1:29am

PVE Minion - Question about maximum DPS

practically i just use the AOE-Cadaver and everything is fine
theoretically im asking the following question and hope someone who has spent more time with this class since 7.0 than me can give me a good answer :P

which one is better for PVE if i want to gain the most possible DPS? the AOE-Cadaver or the Singletarget-Hellion?
i thought the best idea would be to skill both of them and then use according to the situation...? because in aoe-sitution i will lack dps with hellion and in singletarget situation i will lack dps with cadaver, right?
is this true? thanks for all input :love:

2

Tuesday, May 30th 2017, 6:51am

I would assume that the Hellion is more single target dps. And as only single target dps is relevant for most bosses, single target is more important. Clearing trash is not an issue; in worst case trash groups have to be killed piece by piece, but at least you are able to kill the Bosses and get loot. This said, i advise you to go for the Hellion.

3

Tuesday, May 30th 2017, 10:44am

sure hellion will be more dps in singletarget!
but i want to know if it is "standard" for PVE builds to take hellion and cadaver in order to gain max possible DPS ^^

4

Tuesday, May 30th 2017, 10:53am

Eddy

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It's not standard, but ye its possible, also u have more talent points on f2p, but biggest problem for max aoe dps with summy is blood.
Russian p2p / leauge side / Ремпэйдж

5

Tuesday, May 30th 2017, 12:00pm

talentpoints or blood are not the problem, rather the rubies, at least if you want to get all useful ones
the new teleportskill + the aoe bloodsoaking-attack do a great job at gaining blood even without lurker

6

Tuesday, May 30th 2017, 1:14pm

Eddy

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talentpoints or blood are not the problem, rather the rubies, at least if you want to get all useful ones
the new teleportskill + the aoe bloodsoaking-attack do a great job at gaining blood even without lurker
Yeh but on packs, u dont have rlly enough time to do full rotation, with ritual + virus (forgot eng name) :D .. You dont have time, cuz other classes have fast aoe dmg (bard, warr) ... And you should have enough rubies for virus rubies rank 3, rituals rank 2, teleport, blood rubie, if u have all pages... So on f2p ye its much easier to get blood with all those rubies. :D
Russian p2p / leauge side / Ремпэйдж

8

Tuesday, May 30th 2017, 1:26pm

Eddy

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yes not enough time for full rotation, but thats because mobs die so fast :P
Yeh that is biggest summoners problem...Cuz we need full blood to do full rotation, and ppl will never wait for us :P Its possible to do max aoe only on p2p in s17, cuz mobs got more hp .. :D And ye enough time to get full blood between packs...
Russian p2p / leauge side / Ремпэйдж

9

Wednesday, May 31st 2017, 1:28pm

I originally typed up a response to this based off of looking into my own build, but then I realized I still had a few days left on my WoDD and decided to play around with a few builds and run some astral just to get a concrete answer. The results:

By and large the biggest issue with any Cad/Helli hybrid build is the fact that Cadaver's AoE attack is barely even AoE, at just 8 meters. Sure, this means there's a circle around the target that is 16 meters wide, but aside from the few times where there are a ton of mobs, chances are you will only be hitting at most 1-3 mobs. And the thing with those few times where there are massive groups of mobs is that they usually have low HP, and they often die before Cadaver can get a second or third attack in. So unless your tank draws them in and your party has really low DPS, you won't see much of a gain from just using Hellion 100% of the time.

Blood was a huge issue when switching pets, and I'm convinced now that the only time you should summon your pet is when changing builds or when it dies. Summoning is just too expensive to do as part of a routine. Granted my summy still doesn't have great crit chance to gain blood, but still. The biggest issue was after using Hellion on a boss, my blood would default back to 8. Then I would summon Cadaver and then not have enough to cast VI or anything, really. DPS really tanks when you have nothing to do but sit there and cast Life Tap. Ditto on switching to Hellion before a boss. My DPS suffered at first because it took some time to prepare the blood.

Another issue, as others have mentioned, is that there really aren't enough rubies to spare. I don't have all the rubies, so I sacrificed a few from the single target Ritual just to see how much better the AoE dps was. If you have 3 extra rubies, I would suggest putting them in the VI and Rituals buffs or even getting the Stamina rubies (or, hell, even Reanimation/Blood Feast buffs).

As far as DPS on the meter goes, I could pull a steady 2500k - 3000k with Hellion, going up to 4000k - 5000k when casting VI. Cadaver could do 5000k - 6000k when casting VI at peak dps, but during the times when the mobs thinned out I was getting a meager 500k - 2000k.

As far as AoE dps with Hellion, you still have VI and AoE Ritual, which is the bulk of your DPS and does damage quickly anyway. You can cast Ritual every mob pull (40-45 seconds, the cd of teleport and Ritual) if you cast teleport and blood ties once each when out of combat (putting your blood at full).

Verdict: Cadaver builds are simply not viable for any reason.

10

Wednesday, May 31st 2017, 2:28pm

Eddy

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General AOP's idea isnt to siwtch pets on boss fight, his idea is to switch on packs, ( clearing allod - trash mobs ) and use hellion on single target. I also said blood is big problem, if u dont have all rubies. And ye u are right about putting rubies in VI - its must have if your VI is rank 3. Aoe and single target rituals also need rubies for blood gain. So if u have all pages its possible. On p2p i took only aoe ritual rubies for blood.
Russian p2p / leauge side / Ремпэйдж

11

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 2:10pm

General AOP's idea isnt to siwtch pets on boss fight, his idea is to switch on packs, ( clearing allod - trash mobs ) and use hellion on single target. I also said blood is big problem, if u dont have all rubies. And ye u are right about putting rubies in VI - its must have if your VI is rank 3. Aoe and single target rituals also need rubies for blood gain. So if u have all pages its possible. On p2p i took only aoe ritual rubies for blood.
Yeah what I was doing was using Cadaver for all of the trash mobs before the boss, and then switching to Hellion before the boss fight to maximize single-target dps.

Funny enough though, I've never really had a problem with blood even when using rituals without the ritual blood buffs. As long as your crit is at least 300 or 400, popping AoE ritual pretty much fills up my blood bank faster than I can spend it with HoD. I also decided to skip R3 single-target Ritual, since the extra DPS from a single VI for 9 seconds isn't really worth it (as it does not spread to other mobs). I find R2 is necessary to kick off a boss fight and get blood/procs started.

12

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 2:46pm

Quoted from "Locke"



Funny enough though, I've never really had a problem with blood even when using rituals without the ritual blood buffs. As long as your crit is at least 300 or 400, popping AoE ritual pretty much fills up my blood bank faster than I can spend it with HoD. I also decided to skip R3 single-target Ritual, since the extra DPS from a single VI for 9 seconds isn't really worth it (as it does not spread to other mobs). I find R2 is necessary to kick off a boss fight and get blood/procs started.


9 seconds VI with 50% crit would mean 3-4 blooddrops in return at 50% critchance on singletarget, on multitarget even more!
my "protip" i found is to take bloodties on assaultbuild; this way your 1st action is bloodties which gives you 1 blooddrop which is enough then to cast painritual right at the beginning

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER" (Jun 1st 2017, 3:16pm)


13

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 3:13pm

Or you could use blood feast, gain a drop of blood that way and then pop Pain ritual, be a bit more useful with the washing of the blood ruby as you buff allies and freeze the adds for 3 seconds.

14

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 4:10pm

"big" aoe rotation =

1 - "bloodties"
2 - "VI"
(cadaver starts to AOE too at this time which will produce more blood if it hits more critically i think)
3 - "teleport" into the middle of the enemies (gives more blood)
4 - use the "bloodmeal" inmiddle of the enemies (does DPS too)
5 - now there is enough blood for AOE ritual

15

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 8:43pm

Eddy

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I am not starting fight like that, i always start with ritual, pre - cast VI, after ritual i just tp, then i use VI...
Also i didnt mean blood problem in fight, blood is problem before starting fight...You need FULL blood bar to do full aoe rotation...that is big problem... Ofc everey summoner should have full blood bar during any fight, single target or aoe nvm...
Russian p2p / leauge side / Ремпэйдж

16

Friday, June 2nd 2017, 6:14pm

its totally silly that the rubies which made the bloodbank fill up automatically were altered
how do you start the fight with aoe ritual? do you vampirism until blood is full?
or do you mean singletaret ritual? but even then you need 1 more drop

17

Friday, June 2nd 2017, 7:42pm

Eddy

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its totally silly that the rubies which made the bloodbank fill up automatically were altered
how do you start the fight with aoe ritual? do you vampirism until blood is full?
or do you mean singletaret ritual? but even then you need 1 more drop
Naa, i just tp before fight :D In s17 its much easier so... After tp my blood bank is full...
Russian p2p / leauge side / Ремпэйдж

18

Saturday, June 3rd 2017, 8:03pm

Full Hellion build can have a full blood bank before attacking each group of mobs. Just use bloodties one time and teleport to a team member. Your blood bank is full and you can use AoE ritual.

The problem isn't blood during the fight. The problem is when the fight ends, you have to switch pets before the boss or switch pets after the boss, and this takes blood which means you can't cast VI/Rituals until you use vamp a few times.

Cadaver's single target DPS is awful. Cadaver is only better than Hellion in very special cases (when there are at least 3 mobs very close to each other.)

If your cadaver decides to attack one of the mobs on the edge of the group, your DPS will fall very quickly.

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