You are not logged in.

Dear visitor, welcome to Allods Online Forum. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

1

Sunday, July 23rd 2017, 3:53pm

Raids, queue and mercenaries

following situation:
in game ppl write in worldchat sign observatory easy, 0-1-13
this means just a tank is missing, the tank queues and soon its 1-1-13
however the raid does not start, at least for me it does not

well then not and sign PVP- pops fast

i wrote with many players and they all share this problem

what could solve this? mercenaries could! just add strong mercenaris to raids and these problems are past
same like with astralgrpsearch
if no players sign the mercs fill this up

the same thing should be there for hard astralsectors

who would also profit from this? the servers with tiny population like paymentserver and the new one! because it must be HORRIBLE to do these activities threre unless you have fixed groups with fixed times with players who always have time to play everytime at the right time.... (so you see it wont be like this usually)

by looking through the players you see often it seems its like its just a small amount who actually does hard sectors and raids
and i think the problem is usually not the difficulty but just the management of finding players etc and all that
having to organise so much in a game takes out the fun and leads to ignoring this content then

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER" (Jul 23rd 2017, 4:15pm)


2

Sunday, July 23rd 2017, 10:22pm

freestile

Professional

Posts: 868

Location: France

Occupation: DPSSSSSS!!^^

  • Send private message

to me, playing/interacting with people is one of the very principles when you play an mmo.
Just like you need to invest either time or money, or both to enjoy everything an mmo has to offer, interacting with people is and imo must remain one of the basic requirements in this type of games.
The others players aren't here just to be oponent in pvp but to be mates to have fun with in group/raid/guild etc.
If you like mmo's but for some reasons (that i understand in a way) you don't wanna play with others AOP, then sorry to say but for me it's normal that you can't have access to all the content.
They've made the game sooooooooooooo much easier already so i really hope nothing more noob/lonely friendly will come out anymore.

3

Sunday, July 23rd 2017, 11:40pm

while most likely noone will care for my "special wish" to be able to solo everything and to have human players only as opponents for PVP, there are many ppl who care for other reasons so these players and i share interests...
also, its not i dont want to play with others, you got me rong here it seems. i just dont want to search for others endless and EVERYTIME
(and thats why i am writing this here, bcause this is relevant to more players than just me personally)

those who dont have time when others have time -> coordination difficulties (North American players already hav huge trouble participating in many activities due to eu timezone is 6h difference)
-> those who dont find groups because they are "too weak" -> social difficulties
-> those who dont enjoy having to ask 8734234 times every day again in guild and world just to do "normal" content
-> those who dont want to waste time with searching and organizing (this time can NOT be compensated with donations)

i dont ask to make things easier at all
i just ask to make things POSSIBLE

if i wanted this i could just spam world to find a grp, then i could have a grp sooner or later
but thats not an elegant solution at all when we already have a "LFG-queue" and bots "mercenaries"
it just wastes time of a lot of players... just look at the world / zonechats... there are so often endless calls LF xy
but when everyone is busy noone cares
if now there would just be a "LFG-queue" this problem would be solved
those who like to socially interact could still do it, dont they?

or do you really enjoy that tiresome search for xy on various chats? :(

4

Monday, July 24th 2017, 12:26am

Kinda agree more with Free on that, mmo is a good RL simulator if I may call it. Getting to know ppl, cooperating with them makes you do good. Just as in RL it does.

So I'd vote NO for mercs in raids. Coz first I don't really like the new raid system with all them tears. The rewards don't scale that much as the required efforts do, so I'd rather not motivate ppl doing easy mode only, coz then nobody will do normal mode as well. Just like most ppl don't do hard mode these days, it's simply not worth it.

And since the PvE model of this game (very fucking sadly though) requires a holy trinity to be there, then someone has to be a tank. So let's ppl be ones.

But I don't mind this changing completely in some way. So there won't be this holy fucking trinity, or there will be more challenging activities for soloing or what not. I just don't like to fix an already fucked up concept with some more fucked up workaround.

5

Monday, July 24th 2017, 12:53am

we will see how this changes
the current lfg system with free mercs for normal astral was introduced because there are many soloplayers / players unwilling to put much effort in grouping up in russian allods. at least this was written in a thread there

so given the fact they looked into this they might look into the little brother of this problem too in the future

but honeslty, i would not see introducing the option to "solo" all content as a workaround at all
it rather would be a great achievement as it would serve many, including a more interesting endgame for a high percentage of the population

a SERIOUS question:
would anyone "fear" that they could "lose" raidmates or anything to the mercenaries?
like "John always did sector xy with me but now he no longer cares for me and always rushes alone with mercs, now i feel left alone, thats silly!"
or "i want John to be dependent on me for doing sector xy but the mercenaries made him independent, thats silly!"

because if John enjoys to play with Linda, he will anyway prefer her over mercenaries
and if John uses Linda only as a vehicle for gearup, but do not enjoy her as a playmate in geneal, he should not be important to Linda at all anyway...


so all experiments would be welcome to me
i still can just continue doing "regular" gearup, its good enough for me, but maybe this overall situation could be greatly improved, bringing mor players into "hard" endgame

6

Monday, July 24th 2017, 5:16pm

freestile

Professional

Posts: 868

Location: France

Occupation: DPSSSSSS!!^^

  • Send private message

@user_1129018

really? the holy trinity is a bad thing for you?? having classes/roles that complete each others is just so important imo, we already don't even need healers anymore in astral (well except for fable sector), i guess from what i've understood of 8.2 that the game will become a bit more challenging again, like more long term cc needed...

AOP

yes, absolutely, to me we should all depend on other players just like irl we depend on other persons all the time. We human being are made to live in societies/communities, and i want (and think any good mmo should be designed to make us) be strongly dependent on the others to progress.
+ doing thinsg the "hard" (or elitist) way is just so much more rewarding, i mean just look at the current state of the game, everything is so easy now (and even if you say that you don't want the game to be easier, these group search systems by making the content more accessible faster to everyone heavily contribute to make the game easier in a way imo) there's not any achievement feeling anymore in this game, which is one of the very basic thing an mmo should give you. Yes it's a progressive game as you like, but progressing so easily is just...mehhh pointless.

PS : one of the thing that built my pov toward mmos appart from playing allods is watching the videos from "LFG Looking for game", a great french yt channel about mmos, created by 2 hardcore and oldschool mmo players. They really made me realise how bad the new "fast food" mmos, super (too) friendly with everyone, and how rewarding was the old way of making mmo's. Even if i might not want that old mechanics in an mmo, i'd say that allods a couple of years ago was already much better without being too oldschool thought.

So yes, totaly personal but at least you get my point and where i got my opinions from i guess.

7

Monday, July 24th 2017, 6:23pm

@Freestile "i guess from what i've understood of 8.2 that the game will become a bit more challenging again" the only thing i would say that is going to be challenging is survival island, though technically they call it Heroics and thats only because gear can go over 100% instead of the usual 100%. not sure how they will do it but whats point in rare/epic 100%+ you could be focusing on legendary gear or fable.

In normal astral for 8.2 they have doubled the amount of loot and keys we use and that may even include the new raid and so instead of 15 or 14 keys for Observatory 2.0 as i call it, it maybe 28 or 30 keys we need, i hope thats not the case as alot of us would be encumbered by having excess items in our bags.

@AOP Your idea is sound and especially for me, my time zone basically means that nearly everyone is offline/afk/grouped together and so i basically solo everything and it would benefit me easily, like some of the raids on hard mode i haven't done because timezone, nearly everyone i know does it around 3am my time, i am not staying up late and possible end up tired for work.

Though the mercs this time around suck, Matron at Datura is constantly targeted because of her distance, Rowdy is not as good as he used to be, though that is questionable at best and sometimes they suffer on the trash mobs and so if you want them to be able to do s16 etc then they need to be better than what they are now and then buffed.

I am one of the ones who don't do hard sectors or harder raids, but that is because i am not that great at them, i got 777/666 runes and pat 5, but even if i do a run, it will only be a run as i get replaced by someone better and who knows tactics of each boss, i could not tell you the tactics for a quarter of them astrals and so why do hard when i can easily group for s15 say and go through all my keys quicker?

8

Monday, July 24th 2017, 7:48pm

following situation:
in game ppl write in worldchat sign observatory easy, 0-1-13
this means just a tank is missing, the tank queues and soon its 1-1-13
however the raid does not start, at least for me it does not


Didn't understand this part, sorry. As far as i know, the raids start each 10 mins, so if you have 1 1 13 but the time is xx:05 you still need to wait until xx:10 to start. But i agree, the raid should start right away, to don't leave people waiting and maybe leaving too.

I was thinking about mercs:

Tbh, when we first reach Ammer and saw that new merc (engineer) we ask for help, i thought we would get a new one for astral. It could be nice to have more options.

It would be nice to get your own mercs/companions for different stuff: maybe to use them on the private allod as defenders, on the astral ship to complete the crew (it could be hard to implement this) and to complete missing spots on raids. Still, on the raid thing it could be a problem, if people start to kick players with lower GS to get the mercs, but i don't see a problem for old (lower lvl) raids in which is very hard to find a party.

9

Monday, July 24th 2017, 10:21pm

freestile,

the social sturctures in RL are also an interesting topic to discuss; even there its more or less possible to make yourself independent over time from many many factors but going indepth here would range too far offtopic i guess

our opinions are different in this matter as i prefer social interactions which result out of bidirectional affection based on common interests and the will to do thought/knowledge-exchange in a pleasent way for both instead of contacts which are done for the solely purpose of fulfilling an artifical prerequisite

the autogrpfinder and mercs did not make the content easier at all, im pretty sure the mobs still have the same hp, dmg and resistances :P
it only made the act of getting started the content easier

the weak ones will still have trouble or be unable to clear it
i tried the S17 yesterday, it was really hard... me and my grp was too weak
so we have to improve still
if i had mercenaries it would not be "easier" to clear this content
it would just be easier to get a grp
this way i had to do 3 or 4 worldshouts
sure it works, everyone can do it
but its taking time to do 4 worldshots, wait ppl respec, change stats, whatever... its like you save passwords in the browser VS typing them in everytime again...
better would be ppl just sign for that activity and find together this way


Didn't understand this part, sorry. As far as i know, the raids start each 10 mins, so if you have 1 1 13 but the time is xx:05 you still need to wait until xx:10 to start. But i agree, the raid should start right away, to don't leave people waiting and maybe leaving too.

yes i was also told it starts every few minutes and just staying queued will work
so i pressed queue and let the game open, turned to my other computer and did work there, always having allods in my sight, but nothing popped
after i had finished my task which took me over 40 minutes the allods raid has still not popped, my char stood queued all the time
so i unqueued my char and signde for normal battleground which started promptly


It would be nice to get your own mercs/companions for different stuff: maybe to use them on the private allod as defenders, on the astral ship to complete the crew (it could be hard to implement this) and to complete missing spots on raids.
ooooh yesss! that would be A W E S O M E
and for doing maze! you can already use mercs for test your maze, so give it to us for doing maze too!
Still, on the raid thing it could be a problem, if people start to kick players with lower GS to get the mercs
raids already scale to the number of players
from a efficiency-POV you should kick all weak players so the raid gets easier to do
(i havent done the exact math on how much dps a player must have to equal 1 more stack of a raidboss as im fine with carrying rookies, i usually only kick flamers :P)
having mercenaries would rather HELP the rookies to get a grp


@AOP Your idea is sound and especially for me, my time zone basically means that nearly everyone is offline/afk/grouped together and so i basically solo everything and it would benefit me easily, like some of the raids on hard mode i haven't done because timezone, nearly everyone i know does it around 3am my time, i am not staying up late and possible end up tired for work.


this is exactly what i meant
you might find 1 or 2 other players like you but you wont find 6 which are always available and you especially wont find a raid
players like you would enormously profit from the idea i presented here :thumbup:

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER" (Jul 24th 2017, 10:34pm)


10

Monday, July 24th 2017, 11:02pm

@user_1129018

really? the holy trinity is a bad thing for you?? having classes/roles that complete each others is just so important imo, we already don't even need healers anymore in astral (well except for fable sector), i guess from what i've understood of 8.2 that the game will become a bit more challenging again, like more long term cc needed...
Yes Free, holy trinity is a bad thing. In the general case it's only my own humble opinion, but the implementation in AO should left no doubts it's a bad thing overall.

You see you don't need a healer in astral (including fabled sectors) because they needed to make tank required in the first place. And to make it so they boosted boss damage sky-high and gave a tank lots of HP to stand those hits. But they couldn't make healer capable of out-healing that damage because it would've made any healer extremely OP in PvP, so they gave lots of mitigation options to tank making him do good without healer.

We could probably say that if there was no Bloodlust the healer would still be needed, but that's a different story.

So yeah, holy trinity and especially its implementation in allods is what makes all classes similar and actually ruins the idea of different classes only requiring some certain features of the archetype in general, not class in specific.

11

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 2:52am

as much as i love bloodlust it indeed reduces healers value, along with concentration

it would be an interesting concept to give the classes selfheal skills but only heal enough to have a constant playflow while leveling and stats would be only used for reducing damage or incrasing HP (but again, im not sure whether i would like this concept in the end as i am a HUGE fan of bloodlust & concentration, actually i love these stats so much i even tnd to use them in PVP although i usually put myself into a bad situation with, lol)

holy trinity in allods is more holy Quadrality nowadays considering the value of buffers / supporters (bard / engineer)

next patch will make shields affected by wounds, im curious how much impact this will have

12

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 10:10am

Bloodlust/concentration are very useful, a engineer who drops colossus and portable cannon and light/acid turret, medical emergency the engineer can pop a group shield for 5 seconds i believe and the shield is about 200% - 350% and so a team mate who has a high absorption already will be about the 300% mark and so my hp is currently 10m for engineer, the shield would absorb 30m+ dmg total. it's a once in 5 min use though.

The shields being effected by wounds would be a pretty big impact on pvp mainly, it will make it easier and harder in some circumstances.

13

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 4:31pm

You see you don't need a healer in astral (including fabled sectors) because they needed to make tank required in the first place. And to make it so they boosted boss damage sky-high and gave a tank lots of HP to stand those hits. But they couldn't make healer capable of out-healing that damage because it would've made any healer extremely OP in PvP, so they gave lots of mitigation options to tank making him do good without healer.

We could probably say that if there was no Bloodlust the healer would still be needed, but that's a different story.

So yeah, holy trinity and especially its implementation in allods is what makes all classes similar and actually ruins the idea of different classes only requiring some certain features of the archetype in general, not class in specific.
That's actually quite a good analysis on what's happening with classes. Even though you need to know your class and have some CS to tank s17 without healer, it works even there.

$o I would agree their model is broken indeed. In ealier days you'd go with 2 heals or 1 heal+off-heal because there was no bloodlust, and you took some wounds that would make healing less effective over time, now it's slowly spoiling everything. And I guess it will become worse with every increase in power since the amount of self-heal you generate is directly proportional to the damage you do, which is is like x2/3 every patch - we're hitting in the 10's of mils DPS now, to compare with the 100's of k's we did before and would have been insufficient to heal properly even with bloodlust.

Similar threads

Rate this thread