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1

Friday, November 17th 2017, 4:06pm

Uh Oh! (Loot box and gambling)

I see a certain game that just came out is under investigation in the US and EU for potential illegal gambling. I wonder what that could hold in store for Allods?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Gladia" (Nov 21st 2017, 5:38am)


2

Friday, November 17th 2017, 8:02pm

I see a certain game that just came out is under investigation in the US and EU for potential illegal gambling. I wonder what that could hold in store for Allods?
nothing at all, everything in Allods is ingame stuff that u gamble for with a box, there are THOUSANDS of games with the exact same system as long as there is no REAL money gains for us consumers then no laws are broken, also Allods states clearly that trading items for real money is against their eterms of service(that you agree upon every week at patch day) your items are property of Allods

3

Saturday, November 18th 2017, 2:35am

I see a certain game that just came out is under investigation in the US and EU for potential illegal gambling. I wonder what that could hold in store for Allods?
nothing at all, everything in Allods is ingame stuff that u gamble for with a box, there are THOUSANDS of games with the exact same system as long as there is no REAL money gains for us consumers then no laws are broken, also Allods states clearly that trading items for real money is against their eterms of service(that you agree upon every week at patch day) your items are property of Allods



the commissions which investigating this situation are thinking different than your words. they are pointing those "box" systems...

let's see what will happen :whistling:

and regarding that "your items are property of allods" thing;
they can add into the contract something like "everyone who plays this game have to pay 1000€/week" with next patch.
you know 100s maybe 1000s of the players are not reading this contract. almost everyone is gonna accept it and they will keep playing
can they demand this money after a few months? 8o

every single contract clause you accepted unconsciously is only game owners' wishes. those clauses are not strong against to law as you think.

this is the only thing everyone should know.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Mockery" (Nov 20th 2017, 7:37pm)


4

Saturday, November 18th 2017, 7:44am

Regardless, it is about the way the items are being distributed out in loot boxes being complete luck/random, just like strong boxes, you may even count prophetic cards. the method is exactly the same as any other game, completely random luck gambling your money on hopes of getting something new.

5

Monday, November 20th 2017, 10:32pm

since every box is a win its no gambling in a jurisdictional view
btw this is the reason why we dont have the daily lottery, in it there is a "no win" option too

6

Monday, November 20th 2017, 10:48pm

then casinos can make that;

you'll get 0,0...01 cent for each cent you spent.
and they can be legal with this way.

hey! i found a crack in EU's laws!

all casino owners can pray for me now. heaven guaranteed in my afterlife. 8o

7

Tuesday, November 21st 2017, 11:53am

since every box is a win its no gambling in a jurisdictional view


I don't think you understand what gambling is lol
You don't gamble to get small rewards, you gamble for the high price items
You spend 100 euros and bet with yourself that you're gonna get the money's worth back
You gamble on prophetic cards also, especially people who don't spend more than 10-20 euros during those events.
You gamble 10 euros to get a mount reward for example, and instead you receive mirrha, costumes and carnival masks that you don't care about.

It's all about what reward you want and what rewards you receive.

And well, Allods is lucky that it's insignificant in the gaming industry and nobody really talks about it on the internet, so don't worry about investigations

8

Tuesday, November 21st 2017, 5:59pm

since every box is a win its no gambling in a jurisdictional view


I don't think you understand what gambling is lol
You don't gamble to get small rewards, you gamble for the high price items
You spend 100 euros and bet with yourself that you're gonna get the money's worth back
You gamble on prophetic cards also, especially people who don't spend more than 10-20 euros during those events.
You gamble 10 euros to get a mount reward for example, and instead you receive mirrha, costumes and carnival masks that you don't care about.

It's all about what reward you want and what rewards you receive.

And well, Allods is lucky that it's insignificant in the gaming industry and nobody really talks about it on the internet, so don't worry about investigations
Big game names are using the exact same lockbox system Blizzard/PWI(Arc)/Trion/Ea/Ubisoft these are just a few of the big industry names,yes i named gaming undustry companys and not Actual games as i don't want to ruin your impresion of any game out there just so that you know EVERY publisher is guilty so attacking on 1 (EA in this case) really aint gona do *poop* to the bigger problem whic i personally don't see as a problem

9

Wednesday, November 22nd 2017, 3:04pm

Nostrodamus

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since every box is a win its no gambling in a jurisdictional view


I don't think you understand what gambling is lol
You don't gamble to get small rewards, you gamble for the high price items
You spend 100 euros and bet with yourself that you're gonna get the money's worth back
You gamble on prophetic cards also, especially people who don't spend more than 10-20 euros during those events.
You gamble 10 euros to get a mount reward for example, and instead you receive mirrha, costumes and carnival masks that you don't care about.

It's all about what reward you want and what rewards you receive.

And well, Allods is lucky that it's insignificant in the gaming industry and nobody really talks about it on the internet, so don't worry about investigations


then you better take a look at this then:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h03EY02y2WE&t=6s
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10

Sunday, April 22nd 2018, 7:54am

Strongboxes now considered gambling in the Netherlands

A recent ruling by the Dutch gambling commission has decided that any "lootcrates" from which you can win tradeable items are now considered to be "gambling".

http://www.siliconera.com/2018/04/19/dut…boxes-gambling/

11

Sunday, April 22nd 2018, 12:24pm

Quoted

Strongbox jest teraz uważany za hazard w Holandii
A recent ruling by the Dutch gambling commission has decided that any "lootcrates" from which you can win tradeable items are now considered to be "gambling".


true condolations

will predict future :

a) thay will not care, cuz the company's headquarters is not located in this country, and how thay will fund you play that game on your pc ...

b) thay will block acces to game by Dutch, so player from this country will can't no longer play that games, then players will be angry and curret government will lose votes for next elections, cuz gamers are global, becose of it thay will need back/delete it to keep voters to vote for them.

c) byby Dutch players from lotbox games

d) thay will change little loot system, if it will not be too many complicate


Know it's good idea by general, and understand why ppl postking there looks like happy but looking from game seller site it's look difrent



Oh right, was mistaken with mail.ru, will see what will happen :P

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "Xrade19" (Apr 22nd 2018, 11:04pm)


12

Sunday, April 22nd 2018, 4:05pm

Please don't post about stuff you know nothing about. You are just misleading people.

My.com - the company that runs Allods Online outside of Russia is incorporated in the Netherlands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My.com

A more complete article:https://www.pcgamer.com/netherlands-gami…-in-some-games/

What will probably happen is that they will be forced to disclose the % rates for any and all drops contained in lootboxes.

13

Sunday, April 22nd 2018, 11:42pm

Well the mosaic is 100% gambling,

But are the prophetic cards and strongboxes gambling as well ? I really wonder,

-For me when I open prophetic cards I mostly get more crystal chip that what I've actually invested in not to mention the mount costumes and elixirs that you get.
-While for strongboxes its a bit more obvious, but its not 100% gambling, there is always the Coin that you get also the thing you may get in the chest, and the daily lottery.

and as I remember in math the Mathematical expectation of Random variable of the gambling games should be less than 1, so the winning chance are less than the losing chance and that's how casinos get money, but what about those semi-gambling oriented stuff in the game? most of the people get more than they spend in the end (ofc talking about opening a decent amount not 2,3 boxes or compasses). the game get its revenue from the p2w system not the loot boxes system(ofc boxes and other event encourage people to invest more in the game).
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14

Monday, April 23rd 2018, 12:50am

Well the mosaic is 100% gambling,

But are the prophetic cards and strongboxes gambling as well ? I really wonder,

-For me when I open prophetic cards I mostly get more crystal chip that what I've actually invested in not to mention the mount costumes and elixirs that you get.
-While for strongboxes its a bit more obvious, but its not 100% gambling, there is always the Coin that you get also the thing you may get in the chest, and the daily lottery.

and as I remember in math the Mathematical expectation of Random variable of the gambling games should be less than 1, so the winning chance are less than the losing chance and that's how casinos get money, but what about those semi-gambling oriented stuff in the game? most of the people get more than they spend in the end (ofc talking about opening a decent amount not 2,3 boxes or compasses). the game get its revenue from the p2w system not the loot boxes system(ofc boxes and other event encourage people to invest more in the game).

You might want to read the ruling.

Under it anything that involves receiving tradeable items is now considered online gambling.

That means both Strongboxes and Mosiac's are out, while prophetic cards are safe.

15

Monday, April 23rd 2018, 1:12am

Gladia

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Hello,

In the PCgamer link, they explain that it concerns items that can be traded for real money:

Quoted

"The study revealed that four of the ten loot boxes that were studied contravene the law. The reason is that the content of these loot boxes is determined by chance and that the prizes to be won can be traded outside of the game: the prizes have a market value," the report says. "Offering these types of games of chance to Dutch consumers without a license is prohibited."

As MrBarett explained in one of the first messages posted on that topic, that kind of trading (for real money etc.) is forbidden in Allods Online:
https://allods.my.com/en/game/forum-rules/generalingamerules

Let's see what will happen anyway :).
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16

Monday, April 23rd 2018, 7:01pm

Hello,

In the PCgamer link, they explain that it concerns items that can be traded for real money:

Quoted

"The study revealed that four of the ten loot boxes that were studied contravene the law. The reason is that the content of these loot boxes is determined by chance and that the prizes to be won can be traded outside of the game: the prizes have a market value," the report says. "Offering these types of games of chance to Dutch consumers without a license is prohibited."

As MrBarett explained in one of the first messages posted on that topic, that kind of trading (for real money etc.) is forbidden in Allods Online:
https://allods.my.com/en/game/forum-rules/generalingamerules

Let's see what will happen anyway :).

Trading items for real world money was forbidden in the games listed too.

What was ruled on was the ability to trade items won in lootboxes.

17

Monday, April 23rd 2018, 10:38pm

Putting a Rule "its forbidden to trade items for RL money" can not get executed. Noone knows whether someone gifted an item to another player or he sent him 100$ for it or gave him a BJ, whatever
Games can only ban gifting of items, in this case players simply sell it for a extremely low price; in the end this rule is pointless as its impossible to check and execute...

the whole thing is a bit offset, if you would have a gamecompany, would you care for rules from a foreign country...? ofc not, why should you... the worst thing that can happen to you is that you have to move your letterbox-company to some other country...
and if its your own country you have to add some proxy / VPN and thats it

thankfully, on the internet you have the technical assets to circumvent all legal BS someone is trying to molest you with. sellers of physical goods are not in this lucky position (or it takes a lot more effort)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ALLODS-ONLINE-PLAYER" (Apr 28th 2018, 10:58pm)


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