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1

Friday, May 8th 2015, 10:38pm

Quinz

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Discussion: Allods P2W or F2P for a casual gamer?

I would like to discuss the current state of the cash shop in Allods. In my opinion, this is a P2W game for those who don't have A LOT of time to spend on the game. This is because there are things you will need from the cash shop in order to compete with the top players in the game in pvp, and even in order to be approved for raids, astral etc. This is mainly two things: patronage 5 and crystal ships for upgrading your runes.

Now, I know that you CAN buy these things for gold, you can buy crystal ships from AH and you can buy patronage 5 boxes by converting gold to crystals used to buy the patronage box in the cash shop.

However, the issue is that you will never be able to enjoy the game if you're not a super hardcore player with no job and barely a social life, because you will either have to spend all the time in farming gold, or you will have to skip the gold farming in order to enjoy the game and do things like raids, pvp, astral etc.

It's not optimal to have to choose between one or the other of these things, because they both play big roles in the game. When I played Allods actively, I did not have time to farm enough gold, and at the same time be able to enjoy the game. If I would spend all my time to farm enough gold to be able to buy everything needed, I would end up being way too far behind in gear progression, which is really bad in this game.

If you slack behind you'll have a really hard time finding groups for raids and astral and you'll basically get 1 shot in pvp, and then the game isn't really even fun playing anymore, is it? You must keep up from start of a new expansion basically, as the player population in this game is pretty low. There are very few players that actually reach max level, most of the current max leveled players are hardcore old veteran players that were gearing up from the start, or at least early after an expansion.

So the conclusion is: There's simply too much to work for in this game to be able to both enjoy the game and get the necessary items without paying a dime, IF you're casual gamer.

So, for casuals = P2W.

For hardcore players that basically only spend their time on Allods = Not necessarily P2W. Even though probably over 90% of all the hardcore players in Allods payed A LOT of money on this game. It's understandable as this game offers a lot of end game content and therefore who the hell wants to spend 80% of time farming gold just because you need a ridiculous amount of crystal ships to get high leveled runes or a ridiculous amount of patronage boxes in order to get pat 5?

P.S. Worth mentioning is that I myself am no more than a casual player that really like this game, but can unfortunately not spend the necessary time to become something in this game. I have a job and a social life outside of the virtual world.
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This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Quinz" (May 8th 2015, 10:44pm)


2

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 12:17am

Gwiniel

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One could consider the sub server - the money spend to the monthly fee is far less than the money needed for the "free" server, if the player ever wishes to participate in end-game.

I agree with you, that Allods is not a good game for free casual players when it comes to PVP and end-game. Saying that doesn't mean Allods wouldn't be the best game of its kind available, just saying it requires too much grinding and gold-farming to complete very essential quests like earning greatness and having pat 5 etc. Not forgetting the other must have goods from cash shop required in most guilds... starting from runes.
New to Allods? Need few tips'n'tricks? Check ALLODS ONLINE SANCTUARY

Important guide for new players: Patronage: requirements and benefits

3

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 12:05pm

Pochtron

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I said it earlier in a previous post : pat5 alone makes a huge difference between 2 players, and it's quite old now. It was "affordable" earlier when BC price wasn't that high, but not anymore. I wish they make it free now, and let players get it with some quests like for other levels of patronage. They got enough money from it, it has come to a point that it hurts game & new incoming players who will struggle without it.

Same goes for runes : every new char should get a free set of lvl 5 bound runes every time they unlock rune slots. And maybe even give them 1st level of CS items through quests or raids or whatever, so they are aware it exists and does make a difference.

Bottom line is : they thought about means for players to catch up in gear so they don't fall too much behind when they start mid-season. They should do the same for CS items : after 5 years of allods, the difference in CS items is way too much and anything that can reduce this gap (without fillling it, ofc) would be helpful to increase population.

4

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 1:21pm

freestile

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it would be sooooo frustrating for old players if every newbie would get runes, P5 etc... for free, the point of farming/paying for these item isn't only to be strong but to be be strongER than those who have not yet invested the needed time/money to get them.
To me (and i'm sure i'm not the only one) one of the funiest aspect in a mmo is the feeling of superiority that old players have on new players. I don't want new players to become quit OP for free, it would destroy this fundamental pleasure and it would be very unfair to those who have invested their time / money for that.
And that's why F2P > P2P, because instead of wasting your time in a useless gear system (the only thing you can do in P2P) you can farm gold to increase your "cash shop superiority" (what doesn't become useless after one year)

5

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 1:59pm

good written as it shows the problems a "normal" (casual?) player will face often, i want to add 2 things

1st - you still can progress in free version with little time (i have not much time to play myself :() if you try to gain gold from auctions; this is such a BIG part of income if done correctly it must be mentioned
2nd - Pat 5 - if you enabl it only selectively this will help a lot with gold-management

and ocf the "fun" for many players is exactly this, that new players are weak due to the gamemechanics & design
i enjoy this myself too

so i want to end my post with an example of how i would do it nowadays if i would be a new player (i would still use no $)

1st - obviously - level to max
2nd - participate in at least one aod&the 1st BG (x2) every day
i would not gear beyond the strenght i need for doing tkarik
then unlock reincarnation and level another char to max level -> this way possible to participate twice a day in aod

----> gold goes to lootpet, griffon and cheap basic thing slike 2nd green earring green carnifex 1st additional statpoints basic cheap runes etc


if you are less patient or have even less time you could instantly start to gear fully, regarding the 2 keys you get a day, takes ~ 30 min to use them
~ 45 min / day for aod
~ 30 min / day for 1st BG (TC / WH / DF)

would be > 2 hours / day and you would still (slowly) progress

ofc there will be stronger players than you especially at the beginning, but the longer you play the stronger you will get
if you dont like the idea of players beeing so far ahead of you, you can either instantly catch up instantly for $ (expensive) or play on subscription server where the gap cant get so big

6

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 2:10pm

@freestile on 1 hand your probably right^^ the feeling of being superior is probably the main reason many ppls play this kind of game... but on the other hand if there are no lowies to smash it will get boring right ? :P so i agree with the poster above and think there should be some starter sets or something

on this note i really want something like the miraclious arc^^ i thought the 10 euro for a set of lvl 5 runes and a mount (when you can call a lvl 1 wolf one...3,3 sek mounting and barely faster than running -.-)

it can even be a bit more expensive cuz in other games you also have to buy the game once etc. so make it 30-50 euro but give the new player what he needs^^ 1-2 tier of all cs items, a bit of gold, lvl 5 or 6 runes, a mount AT LEAST rank 2! and maybe a few boxes of pat 5 (i dont think you need it free instanty cuz even i didnt used it full and iam a heavy casher so just use it when you want like cf or raids whatever)

ofc this is a bit mean to old players who spend quite a bit of money for this but even the old player dont want the game to die -.- and also it should be normal for old things to become cheaper just take an pc as an example^^ you buy something for a few 1000 euro and a few years later its worth just a few 100 euros :D

7

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 2:21pm

Gramarye

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it would be sooooo frustrating for old players if every newbie would get runes, P5 etc... for free,


In my Opinion its more frustrating to see the servere dying u invested that much time in

8

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 3:31pm

Pochtron

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Even with basic CS, free Pat5 & lvl 5 runes which is very, very far from OP, the gap is still large enough for those who like to feel their "superiority".
Also don't forget knowledge of the class, which is something that no credit card can buy. So old players still have advantages enough.

9

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 3:57pm

Quinz

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Even with basic CS, free Pat5 & lvl 5 runes which is very, very far from OP, the gap is still large enough for those who like to feel their "superiority".
Also don't forget knowledge of the class, which is something that no credit card can buy. So old players still have advantages enough.
Fully agree. They need to make the game more friendly both for newcomers and for casual gamers who don't have 5+ hours to spend on the game every day. The things that are required to get in order to compete with the hardcores should be obtainable in other ways than from cash shop only. You should of course have to work hard for it, but it shouldn't have to take you years, it shouldn't require you to pay real money, and you shouldn't have to sacrifice other fun features of the game.

Let's say they made it so that bosses in astral had a chance to drop crystal ships. Then you get to experience the astral content which is a big part of end game in Allods, and at the same time you farm crystal ships you would progress for new gear. Then hardcore players would obtain both gear and crystal ships much faster than casual players, and would be more powerful during a long time, but casual players would still have a chance to reach the top as well, it would just take longer to get there.
“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
-Dale Carnegie

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
-Bernard M. Baruch

10

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 4:36pm

freestile

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@Bluescarlet "but on the other hand if there are no lowies to smash it will get boring right ? :P so i agree with the poster above and think there should be some starter sets or something"
==> i totaly agree with you and this is one of the main issue for a F2P mmo, the balance between helping newbies and let the old player feel their superiority as i told it in a previous post with this videofor example

but for me the old players should always be a little more valued than new because they have already shown their love for the game, even if it means make the game dying slowly what is inevitable anyway :rolleyes: and is already happening unfortunately for Allods :S

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "freestile" (May 9th 2015, 4:43pm)


11

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 6:45pm

Quinz

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so i want to end my post with an example of how i would do it nowadays if i would be a new player (i would still use no $)

1st - obviously - level to max
2nd - participate in at least one aod&the 1st BG (x2) every day
i would not gear beyond the strenght i need for doing tkarik
then unlock reincarnation and level another char to max level -> this way possible to participate twice a day in aod

----> gold goes to lootpet, griffon and cheap basic thing slike 2nd green earring green carnifex 1st additional statpoints basic cheap runes etc


if you are less patient or have even less time you could instantly start to gear fully, regarding the 2 keys you get a day, takes ~ 30 min to use them
~ 45 min / day for aod
~ 30 min / day for 1st BG (TC / WH / DF)

would be > 2 hours / day and you would still (slowly) progress

ofc there will be stronger players than you especially at the beginning, but the longer you play the stronger you will get
if you dont like the idea of players beeing so far ahead of you, you can either instantly catch up instantly for $ (expensive) or play on subscription server where the gap cant get so big
Thanks for the tips! If I ever decide to come back to Allods, I will follow your advise.
“If you want to conquer fear, don't sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.”
-Dale Carnegie

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
-Bernard M. Baruch

12

Monday, May 11th 2015, 8:40am

Alafff

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Putting a message froml P2P : Yes Cs is not here , but yes you still need to pay to play :)

Alllods thanks to the new system of keys is now a game you need to invest time almost everyday , to not go past the limit of 28keys and begin wasting thoses.

On p2p gear is your only variable, means that if you fall behind , you're behind , you can't counteract with anything. You can come back , it is harder than on f2p , where an heavy cash shopper can use cs items to come back faster , or increase his power with his runes/others objects.

No P2p is easier for casuals at one moment : During new majors updates , it will be a soft reset for old players , and both olds and news will use the new gear without real persistant advantages :)
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13

Monday, May 11th 2015, 10:27am

Erwyn

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http://www.hellokittyonline.com/ is good for casuals
/edit by Fayne: Please follow the Signatur Rules

14

Monday, May 11th 2015, 12:22pm

15

Monday, May 11th 2015, 5:00pm

Kissaki

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I'd love to see the game be a bit more generous to new players.

Starter packs like Bluescarlet suggests work for me. I'd even like to see some things just given out freely from quests as people level. Lvl 2 mounts and bigger bags free at lvl 20-65. Repeatable daily quest to earn Pat 5 over time for free.

It doesn't really matter to me what system they use to implement these things - I feel like giving people a taste of the good stuff as they level might keep them playing. As for Pat 5 especially, but also other cash shop items, it wouldn't be terrible to give them away free or to heavily discount them in future sales. Yes I've paid blahblah million gold for whatever item... but we're not in Allods 3.0 or 4.0 any more. I've had the use of these items for all this time and, like many things that are old, they should drop in value.

One thing I would definitely like to see is extremely cheap Water of Death/Life prices. Too many people get stuck in crappy builds and won't change them until next patch, hoping for free WoD. WoD is the kind of item you could still make the same money from, selling in large volumes for low price. Besides, a lot of the people who can't afford the price of Pat 5 etc could increase their DPS by that same 16.5% by changing their build to something that isn't so terrible :P

No one is talking about giving noobs full cash shop for nothing. Long-time players and cash-shoppers will always have a big edge over casuals and scrubs, but game has a huge amount of booster items and mounts compared to what it had years ago, so to give a few of these items out freely or heavily discounted to new players isn't such a bad idea, and I don't care how they do it, just do it.

16

Monday, June 15th 2015, 2:14pm

Pochtron

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Reviving this - since Allods is on Steam now, any chance GM or higher may promote some friendly Runes/CS/P5 package for new players so they are not too far behind cash shop wise ?
Like discussed above, it would really help them stay in the game longer and pass the Asee-Tep/Eljune/Coba gankzones as well as the first green astral gear level easier.

Thanks for looking into it, please.

17

Monday, June 15th 2015, 2:59pm

why dont u come and play on p2p server wıth us u dont have to pay for anythıng ıf you are good player you are kıng:D ıf you are bad you should learn:)In f2p unfortunalty even ıf u are bad player and have money you could be kıng:) p2p is fair ..not like f2p or should ı say p2w:D

18

Monday, June 15th 2015, 6:33pm

Gramarye

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why dont u come and play on p2p server wıth us u dont have to pay for anythıng ıf you are good player you are kıng:D ıf you are bad you should learn:)In f2p unfortunalty even ıf u are bad player and have money you could be kıng:) p2p is fair ..not like f2p or should ı say p2w:D

lol

19

Tuesday, June 16th 2015, 10:03am

I really don't get it. Why ppl keep complaining about curent state of f2p server (which is going even worse with new CS items) but they don't want to hear about p2p server. Situation on p2p is simple: if u are good player than u are good. If u are a slacker or hopeless noob than your money can't help you.
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Tuesday, June 16th 2015, 12:03pm

Gwiniel

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I really don't get it. Why ppl keep complaining about curent state of f2p server (which is going even worse with new CS items) but they don't want to hear about p2p server.
In my case... I don't want to loose all the Item Shop items I already have which would happen when switching to sub server, I've played too long and spend too much to change now that sub is available. If I was a new player, I'd probably go sub.
New to Allods? Need few tips'n'tricks? Check ALLODS ONLINE SANCTUARY

Important guide for new players: Patronage: requirements and benefits

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